Grassroots Motorsports

Register Log in to GRM
- Community

Birthdays
Recently on the Classic Motorsports forums

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » First Track Day Coming

1 2

Feb. 4, 2009 2:32 a.m. skullsroad New Reader

I'm planning for my first track day in April. I'm trying to compile a list of things I need to order to make it a successful one.

The car is a 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R.

What I already have:

The usual intake, header, exhaust, cat-less. The body is gutted out. Suspension consists of Progress coil-overs, control arm brace and rear sway bar. Energy suspension and Superpro bushings. Bolt-In-Bars bumpsteer kit and Ground Control camber plates. I have yet to decide on alignment but I figure -2.5 front camber and -1 out back with zero toe is a safe way to start. Brakes consist of Techna-fit lines, Castrol synthetic fluid, Axxis Ultimate pads and Brembo blank rotors (calipers and discs are uprated NX2000 versions). I'm not sure if I need to run a better pad. The Ultimates are great on my favorite back road but I can fade them on repeated 13 minute runs. Right now the car is on 15x7 A-Tech Erasers and 205/50R15 RT-615s. By the time the fun begins the Azenis will be toast so I'm deciding if I should run 205/50R15 Ecsta XS or buy the wheels I have my eye on; 15x7.5 Konig ReTrack, then put 225/45R15 RS2s on em. I've heard too many people vote against race rubber when you're a newb.

What I need:

I'm having a roll bar welded in next month. I'm planning for it to be a "half-cage" actually with the ability to add on later. Cooling may be an issue so I'm considering a Mishimoto radiator. However, I'm hoping some fresh coolant, Water Wetter and an underdrive pulley will do the trick. A steering wheel is not absolutely needed but I prefer it. I need a helmet and gloves. Any opinions? Fire extinguisher?

I know I'm missing some stuff. This will be a slow paced HPDE 1 run but I don't see the harm in over doing it. I'm confident in my abilities to be able to advance quickly through the courses.
Feb. 4, 2009 7:05 a.m. Dashpot New Reader

You already have way more hardware than necessary for a 1st DE, except maybe the brake pads. Generally, if they're new you'll be fine for the first day out.

You really need to bring an open mind and patience (you may be frustrated with the pace on the first couple of sessions). Oh yeah, and listening carefully to the instructor is a must. Getting positive feedback will be great start to your season.
Feb. 4, 2009 8:05 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

Why not just go with what you got? You're not going to see 10/10ths of that car at all that day, and you're not going to burn up your tires or brakes. Just go with the tires and brakes that you have. I wouldn't really worry about your alignment either, but what you are looking at probably is pretty safe.

Dashpot has it right on. Be patient. You're going to be itching to go as fast as the car can go, but your instructor most likely won't let you - at least not until later in the day. You'll be driving the line, looking for flag stations, and hopefully, sight references in the background (trees, flags, buildings, etc.).

You will also probably find yourself getting hung up by other drivers as the day goes on. They're most likely going to be in cars that are much faster than yours (Viper, Z06, GT-500, etc.). You'll catch them in the turns, but they'll blow you away down the straightaways. If they give you the point-by, pass them. If not, just go back into the pits and wait for some room.

If you don't want your brakes to go bye-bye half way through the day, you'll probably want to bleed them before you go. If the fluid has been in there longer than a year, especially if it is some super-high-temp brake fluid, you'll want to flush it. It absorbes water like a sponge and water boils at a mesely 273 degrees.

Get some sleep the night before, drink plenty of water, eat some chili (if applicable), and have fun!
Feb. 4, 2009 8:08 a.m. willy19592 New Reader

I'm confident in my abilities to be able to advance quickly through the courses.

going through "unnoticed" (bad or good) prolly should be a good goal as well ;)

good=There wont be any talent scouts out there, and how you set the tone for your self at your first event will follow you a long time.

bad= if you are driving over your head constantly and get "noticed" chances are you will be watched by every corner and instructor much more intense.

Have FUN!
Feb. 4, 2009 8:21 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

Good point. A lot of people get noticed at HPDEs by going to the hospital and having their cars sent to scrap yards. Don't be cockey. Every time I go to one of these things, somebody ends up leaving with a broken car. Don't be that guy.

Also, if cooling is a problem, you don't want to underdrive your water pump. That won't make things any better.

Generally, I like driving cars with steering wheels too. It makes turning easier.

Remember that iRacing, Forza, and Gran Turismo don't count as racing experience.
Feb. 4, 2009 8:45 a.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

Youre car is built! Nice job. That thing shouldn't have any trouble doing and HPDE.

I will second what the other two posters have said. 1. check brake pads and bleed your brake fluid. 2. check your head. Listen to your instructor and be open to advice/criticism.

Your car is built for racing. No doubt about that. The brakes are the most important aspect along with general track worthyness like a well maintained suspension.

Most guys who talk about doing this I recommend they change pads, bleed fluid, and have their car safety inspected by a good shop. Modifications can come later.

Your head is the most important part.
Feb. 4, 2009 9:07 a.m. Armitage Reader

Like everyone's already said, the conventional wisdom is "invest in the driver first". As long as your car is reliable and has good tires/brakes and isn't leaking anything, that's all you really need. Forget about going fast till you've got your head wrapped around everything else; remembering the flagging stations, finding the proper line, listening to your instructor, managing traffic, learning your brakes, cornering limits, etc. all at the same time

What track are you going to? You're going to have a blast, I can't think of anything else that's as much fun as a day at the track!
Feb. 4, 2009 9:51 a.m. Scott Lear Club Editor

What track are you going to be running on? Check around and see how hard the track is on brakes; certain circuits allow you to get away with an aggressive street/HDPE brake setup, but others demand a dedicated track pad. Either way, bring your old OEMs or some type of spare pad, if you get outside the happy temperature zone of your current pads, they can vaporize quickly; more than once I've had to switch to my old stock pads for the drive home. Put some FRESH brake fluid in the car shortly before the event, and bring the fluid with you in case you boil. Better to have it and not need it than vise-versa!

And, to drive home the point even more, the most important things to bring to the track day are a cool head and the willingness to learn. Make on-track awareness your top priority. Pay attention to your instructor, learn where every flag station is, keep your eyes moving. Are the gauges all reading OK temps? Who's in the mirrors? Was there a flag at the last station? It'll take time, but you'll relax as the day goes on and your comfort level will increase.

That Guy is the one who brags about how fast he is before he even gets his car on track; That Guy is also the most likely to end up in a tire wall when he gets passed by a better driver in a "slower" car and decides to drive above his talent level in an attempt to validate his earlier boasting.
Feb. 4, 2009 10:07 a.m. iceracer Reader

What everyone has said. Just because somene thinks they are a fast driver on the street doesn't mean they will be on the track. It's a whole different thing. As for brakes, the pads you have sound good. I have a friend with a 200SX and runs a lot of track days, he is an instructor. He uses those pads with good luck.
Personally, on my ZX2SR I use Hawk HPS and HP+ on stock rotors with good results. Go, learn and have fun and drive safe.
Feb. 4, 2009 10:30 a.m. DWNSHFT New Reader

A new idea:

Spend one or two evenings karting. Rental karts are a great way to start to develop the skills you'll need on track. Most importantly, you'll flush out some butterflies and start getting your head up to speed. That will make you better prepared to be calm, cool and collected in the car, and you'll learn faster as you won't be quite so overwhelmed.

Good luck, and remember:

Shiny side up!

David
Feb. 4, 2009 10:43 a.m. Salanis UltraDork

If you have this much money to throw at the car, consider throwing $60 at a hotel room for the night before. Get as much sleep as possible before the event.

To continue what's been said: your car is more than prepped enough for your first HPDE. Normally you just need sufficient brakes, tires, and cooling (not even anything fancy), and fresh fluids. Focus on the driver. Maybe find a good theory book, or two, to read. Be sure you get enough sleep. Stay hydrated. Eat well. Dress in layers. Bring sunscreen. And stay hydrated.

And I'm also interested in hearing where you're doing your first track day.
Feb. 4, 2009 11:48 a.m. Feffman New Reader

Ditto the brake bleed (actually flush may be better) recommendation with good fluid and new pads. Since you are in there maybe some braided steel lines for better feel too. Check the fluids a nd pads during hte day ot make sure everything is OK.

PLEASE don't go in with the attitude you are going to be the fastest guy on the track. You won't, and it will get you into trouble. Listen to the instructor, drive within yourself and enjoy the day. Keep well hydrated and make sure you have a snack.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Feff

www.MVPTrackTime.com
Feb. 4, 2009 1:17 p.m. skullsroad New Reader

Haha thanks for ALL the wisdom guys. This is what I was looking for. I'm going into this with a humble ego and an itch to learn EVERYTHING. I know the best prep is the driver not the car. I've been driving a nearly deserted back road that snakes around a reservoir for about 4 years now and half the time I go 10/10ths. Some think its juvenile and part of it is, but that I've really come to understand my car and picked up some great skills. Plus, making mistakes on a road like that makes you learn really fast If this track driving thing picks up I think I'll limit myself to spirited cruises on the back roads.

Salanis: Well, I really didn't throw money at the car. Its been a few years. You gotta cut a lot of corners on $12 an hour! A hotel is a definite must. The track is Buttonwillow. I've been there to watch time attacks, the SE-R Cup (RIP), and hang out with Mike Kojima, Dave Coleman and even got a ride with Tom Paule. I'm a little bit familiar with the track after all the visits there. Plus I have some pretty good course memorizing curriculum: Youtube!
Feb. 4, 2009 1:27 p.m. confuZion3 Dork

The first lap or two turned by your car on the track should see you in the passenger seat and your instructor behind the wheel. If he doesn't ask you outright to drive (he probably will), ask him yourself. It helps the instructor size you up a bit and he can show you the HPDE line.

You've got yourself a pretty sweet ride there (I like the old Sentras). Take care of it and it will reward you.
Feb. 5, 2009 9:34 a.m. Scott Lear Club Editor

Actually, I used to try to get rides with as many different instructors as possible, it's a great way to see the line and feel how an experienced driver manages the car at speed.

Don't forget to bring some snacks and water. Even though you're sitting down, track driving is EXHAUSTING mentally and physically. Treat it like a day of exercise. And bring sunblock and a hat!
Feb. 5, 2009 12:18 p.m. jimbbski New Reader

Having instructed at such events for a few years the one mistake most new drivers make is carring to much speed into the corners. They always end up having to brake as they turn in and through the corner ending up missing the apex of the turn by a wide margin and being slow on their exit. Then they wonder why that slower car is on their butt and wanting to pass on the next straight.

There is a saying; "Slow in, Fast out". Read it, study it, and do it.

One you have a couple of events under your belt you can then work on carring the speed into and through the turns.
Feb. 5, 2009 1:01 p.m. confuZion3 Dork

Scott Lear wrote:

Actually, I used to try to get rides with as many different instructors as possible, it's a great way to see the line and feel how an experienced driver manages the car at speed.

Don't forget to bring some snacks and water. Even though you're sitting down, track driving is EXHAUSTING mentally and physically. Treat it like a day of exercise. And bring sunblock and a hat!

See if your instructor will let you come out with him during one of the instructor sessions in his car. These sessions are much different than student sessions - they're way more aggressive and your instructor will probably get you around the track faster than you think is possible. You also get to see the line over and over again, so you learn faster.

Oh, and don't roll down there with a quarter tank of gas and think that will help you. You'll end up running out of gas either on track (again, you don't wanna be that guy ) or off and have to buy the tracks gas at 5.00 a gallon!

My miatas fuel gauge broke on me during my last HPDE and I thought I was out of gas during my last session. I had to get off the track, go to my spot in the paddock for my wallet, fill the damn thing up, and then find my instructor who had wandered off somewhere. I lost a lot of seat time during my las session of the year. Needless to say, I'm still a little upset about that one.

You will burn gas like you never have before. Go with a fill tank.
Feb. 5, 2009 3:03 p.m. gamby UberDork

I'd think a bone stock SE-R w/ fresh shocks/struts, fresh brakes and decent tires would be a killer HPDE car as-is.

Here's the thing--if you don't have a bunch of auto-x under your belt, you're going to be WAY slower than you think you actually are.

Motorsports is a VERY humbling experience.

skullsroad wrote: I'm confident in my abilities to be able to advance quickly through the courses.

This attitude strikes fear into instructors.
Feb. 5, 2009 3:27 p.m. Salanis UltraDork

skullsroad wrote:

I've been driving a nearly deserted back road that snakes around a reservoir for about 4 years now and half the time I go 10/10ths.

You know, I kind of hope that you actually haven't been going 10/10ths. I want to say that you actually haven't gotten there, and I hope I'm right. That road would have to have some very forgiving run-offs for you to have been able to do that. You might have found 9/10ths, but not 10/10ths. 10/10ths is a lot different from 9/10ths.

See, one of the main ways you learn where 10/10ths is, is to hit 11/10ths. Things get gnarly at 11/10ths. Public roads, even "nearly deserted back roads" are not a safe place for that.

Unless you auto-x a lot, I'm guess/hoping you don't know what 10/10ths really feels like. And your first track day will not be the place to find 10/10ths. Your first track day is time to drive 7-8/10ths and cram apexes and smooth control inputs into your nervous system.

If you have been driving that much, without any instruction, you'll likely have a lot of bad habits to unlearn before you're able to go really fast.

Try to hit a couple of Auto-X'es before your track day. Get instruction at those. Keep your mouth closed and your ears and eyes open.
Feb. 5, 2009 3:46 p.m. Armitage Reader

^^^^^ Well put. After 9 years of AutoX and RallyX and 3 full seasons of track weekends, I still drive at 7-8/10ths most of the time. One high speed spin and crash my first season and I've been taking it somewhat easier ever since :P
Feb. 5, 2009 4:02 p.m. gamby UberDork

skullsroad wrote: I've been driving a nearly deserted back road that snakes around a reservoir for about 4 years now and half the time I go 10/10ths.

I missed this initially--

Street driving has NOTHING to do with track driving. Apples and oranges.

If anything, my experiences on the track and on the auto-x course have slowed me down on the streets CONSIDERABLY. If you're driving at 10/10ths on public roads, to the point that you're nearly spinning your car, you really need to reassess the urge to belong to this site. Jackassery (i.e. treating the streets like a racecourse) has no place here.

Read a book about line theory (like "Secrets of Solo Racing") or find something online about the racing line and track driving techniques.

Listen to your instructor, accept that you aren't the best driver on the track and accept that you are a novice as a driver.

I've done two track days, 2 auto-x schools and a few seasons of auto-x and I STILL think I'm a n00b.
Feb. 5, 2009 5:07 p.m. Salanis UltraDork

gamby wrote:

Read a book about line theory (like "Secrets of Solo Racing") or find something online about the racing line and track driving techniques.

I second "Secrets of Solo Racing". There are plenty of other good theory books. "Speed Secrets" and "Going Faster" are also good ones. I am inclined to say that "Secrets of Solo Racing" is better for just starting out, when you're not going to be going wheel-to-wheel.

I've done two track days, 3 auto-x schools and a few seasons of auto-x and I STILL think I'm a n00b.

Things didn't really click until my 4th track day. When they did click, they really clicked and I was suddenly running down S2000s and Mazdaspeeds in my stock '94 Miata. Things clicked because I'd built the necessary reflexes and thought processes at 8/10ths, then rode with a Spec racers to see 10/10ths and figured out what skills I could apply where.

If you can't put the car exactly where you want it at 8/10ths, you can't put it exactly where you want it at 10/10ths.

If you're driving faster than you can think, you're not learning, you're just surviving.
Feb. 5, 2009 5:26 p.m. gamby UberDork

(edited my post--I did 2 auto-x schools, not 3)
Feb. 5, 2009 5:28 p.m. amg_rx7 New Reader

Ah, I remember my first track day. Back in 1988 when I turned 18 in my VW Scirocco. The car was stock except for shocks and springs. I didn't spend thousands or even hundreds on anything other than basic maintenance. All season tires, stock brakes, OE brake fluid.

My preparation involved reading some book on driving technique. Might have been a Bondurant book. The book was useful.

It was a great day. Car was reliable and I learned a lot.

I still don't do any special prep other than to keep the car well maintained on a regular basis and re-read some of the good books like Speed Secrets and such every year.
Feb. 5, 2009 11:54 p.m. skullsroad New Reader

I've learned a lot of lessons (mental lessons, not just skills) on that road. The last major accident I had ended up with the shiny side down. An E36 lost it around a decreasing apex and I had to choose his car or the mountain. I chose mountain and ended up driving up a dirt mound and sliding on my passenger side. I was not scared or angry, just disappointed. I know better than to get too close to inexperienced people and let my hot head get the best of me. I'm sorry to tell you guys but I go 10/10ths quite often. Some days my 10 is better than other days but either way I'm determined to maximize my cars potential. I've tired auto-x and came away feeling like I flushed $40 or so dollars down the drain. No elevation changes, boring course layouts, not enough seat time etc etc etc. Maybe if it was cheaper and you got a lotta runs in. I know its different in other regions (mine is the bay area of CA) but my experience was less than thrilling. I'd rather drive my favorite road for free for hours.

I'm hoping to learn a lot from this experience and make it a regular occurrence in my life. Really, driving is all I care about. It's not even about the cars. Hell, I could be driving my old Dodge D50 long-bed and still be having a blast.

1 2

You'll need to log in to post.