johnp2
Reader
8/1/19 12:42 p.m.
Coming to the hive for some advice. Picked up a 2005 focus ST 2.3 5 speed a couple weeks ago. Test drive was excellent, no major issues to report. Got the car home and did some rooting around, found the brake/clutch reservoir mostly empty. Topped it off and assumed maybe a loss as the pads have worn down. Went to move the car to another location and found it would not go into any gear while running. Engine off, goes into gear. After some persuasion I was able to get it moving and a drive around the neighborhood proved successful so the car drove 40 miles without issue.
A week later I go to drive the car again and the same issue. Spot a leaking clutch master (apparently common on these) and replace it. I have been working to bleed the system for an hour now. Getting the same results. Not able to get in gear with engine running, no issues with engine off. If i start it in gear it does not pull the car and i can release the clutch and drive away.
Heading back out to vacuum bleed shortly. Just curious if this sounds like a possible clutch disc issue, or if i need to just keep bleeding.
Thanks for the help!
-John
I would keep bleeding. If you can get to slave cylinder pull it out and bleed from that end. Push in the rod by hand, open bleeder, close, release, etc... bleeding clutch systems can be a pain but that trick works well for me.
johnp2
Reader
8/1/19 5:52 p.m.
spandak said:
I would keep bleeding. If you can get to slave cylinder pull it out and bleed from that end. Push in the rod by hand, open bleeder, close, release, etc... bleeding clutch systems can be a pain but that trick works well for me.
No external rod on this one unfortunately. Spent an hour vacuum bleeding and another 15 minutes with a two man operation. Still the same result, no change at all. Two man method showed no air in the system. For kicks I checked and topped off transmission fluid, didn't take hardly any.
Sounds like I might be in for a clutch job unless any other recommendations can be made? It does have 200k on it and the PO had owned it for 100 and never replaced the clutch.
It just seems odd that it will start in gear and operate normally until you fully release the clutch at a stop. Then it is stuck in neutral until you kill it and restart in gear.
Thanks
-John
Sounds like a continued bleed issue to me.
Is the bleed nipple at the top of the slave cylinder? If not, can you remove it and bleed it unmounted, held so the nipple is up?
Another one I've used is to flush fluid up from the bleed nipple with a syringe, going in the cylinder and out into the reservoir.
It drove fine, then it leaked fluid and stopped driving fine. It's relatively unlikely that a simultaneous issue developed, though I guess if you drove it around a crap-ton with a clutch that wasn't disengaging fully you could manage to warp something, but that seems distantly unlikely.
As long as the slave isn’t inside the bellhousing you should be able to use the methods mentioned. Unbolt the slave and you can hold it in your hand and bleed it like I described. Just don’t forget to bolt it back in before getting in the car and by habit kicking down the clutch pedal. I did that once. Whoops
johnp2
Reader
8/1/19 8:05 p.m.
Unfortunately the slave is actually within the bellhousing, so not removable unless i pull the trans. The nipple is indeed pointing upwards. I had read about pushing fluid using a syringe, perhaps that will be my next attempt. I'll do another round of bleeding tomorrow and report back. I don't know how long it was driven with low fluid, I do know the car had been sitting for around 7 months prior to me picking it up. Thanks for the input guys.
-John
johnp2
Reader
8/2/19 7:14 p.m.
Another 30 minutes of two man bleeding and an hour of gravity bleeding with the same results. I am very confident the hydraulic system is properly functioning. Another note. If you try to go into gear as soon you press the clutch it will not go in, however if you hold the clutch in for 8-10 seconds, it will slide in just fine.
-John
Sounds like it’s time to pull the transmission. Maybe someone else has some better news but if you’re confident the hydraulics are functioning then the problem must be down stream.
Edit: the problem could be in the line to the slave. If there is some sort of constriction the pressure would build slowly until the clutch was disengaged. Maybe one of the lines are pinched?
In reply to spandak :
If there was a constriction slowing fluid movement into the slave, wouldn't it prevent the master being depressed fully/quickly? Otherwise, where would the fluid displaced from the master go?
When you've waited the 8-10 seconds and slid it into gear, where does the clutch take up when you go to drive away? Low or normal?
I'm still dubious that it's not a hydraulic issue, though I am thrown by the wait-and-it'll-work thing. But as unlike a hydraulic thing as that seems, I can't think of much else that would behave that way either... Pilot bearing? Warped clutch? Other things that would cause it not to want to go into gear aren't things that would suddenly be better 8-10 seconds later.
So, it's not like I'm hugely confident, but I'm wondering whether the clutch is dragging when "disengaged", and the combo of momentum + drag is too much to go into gear, but it's light enough that it spins down some and you're fighting a small drag with no inertia after a short period of time.
To me, it sounds like less trouble to try the syringe, and/or Google for other special 2005-Focus-ST clutch bleeding tricks than to drop the trans. I think the forum is full of stories of things that were insanely difficult to get properly bled.
In reply to Ransom :
Fair point. Fluid doesn’t compress like air.
The rest of what you said makes sense to me. I’ve heard plenty of stories of clutch bleeding problems and my gut says it’s that too but without being there I don’t really know.