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I never realized you could get a 3.6 liter Windsor V8. 3.5" bore with 2.87" stroke, could it be a high rpm engine with the use of 5.0 mustang aftermarket parts?
I dont really need a boat anchor, I mean, boat engine kicking about the garage but I am infatuated with high RPM engines...
Anybone have first hand knowledge?
1962 was the first year of the Windsor engine, there wasn't much high performance about it. In addition, being a reverse rotation boat engine you'd have to make it turn the right direction - I suppose the camshaft as well as the distributor and maybe the oil pump would have to be replaced. You could maybe use the crankshaft in a later 5.0 block if you really wanted to build a small displacement engine, but it's a cast crank and not meant for high performance use.
The smaller bore will be a disadvantage without 4-valve heads. Read up on the GM 305 and the same comments would apply to this Ford engine.
The 289 has the same short stroke with a 4" bore. You can put the 221 crank in a 302 and make a 289 screamer.
A smaller bore on a SBF wouldn't be the way to go as the heads don't flow that well to begin with an making a smaller chamber with smaller valves is certainly going in the wrong direction for performance. 289 is a great platform to start with if you want something that will turn high RPMs. 4" bore lets you use big valves and the 2.87" stroke keeps piston speed low at very high RPMs. If you can get the valvetrain to cooperate it will spin to the moon. Drag race guys in Super Stock run 289's to nearly 10K RPM regularly. You can get good pieces for every part of the engine.
I had one of these engines and put it in my 70 Mach1. They are very very rare, this one was at a high school auto shop as a display demo unit for decades,
so was all original. I tried putting a 255ci v8 (another rare-ish SBF engine) 2-bbl intake on it, but it didn't fit quite right. The 302 intakes didnt' fit either properly as I recall.
I overheated it and replaced it with a 5.0, so not much more to say than that. It is not a performance engine at all, but I was looking for the v8 sound and look with v6 mpg as this was my daily driver at the time.
I dunno about that one, but the early Fox Mustangs came with the 255, and holy snapping arseholes, Batman, was it slow.
347 stroker or GTFO.
Before any weenies say the only "Windsor" was the 351W (crap too late)
The 221 was the first version of this engine family, it was quickly upsized to 260 and 289ci. In '66ish they changed the bellhousing pattern so larger flywheels and clutches could be fitted. ALL 221 and 260 are the early 5 bolt bellhousing, 289 can be either. IIRC all 221s had adjustable valvetrain with close tolerance slots in the heads to locate the pushrods. (No need for hardened pushrods like with steel guideplates)
The biggest problem with the 221 is the bore diameter. The chambers are tiny, so you could use them to raise compression on a 289 or 302. But the valves are also tiny, so you wouldn't make any power.
I have heard of guys drag racing these in the 60s spinning to ridiculous RPM. I like small V8s but it doesn't seem worth the effort today to make a race engine out of one.
stuart in mn said: You could maybe use the crankshaft in a later 5.0 block if you really wanted to build a small displacement engine, but it's a cast crank and not meant for high performance use.
It's the same stroke as a 289, which had the same bore as a 302, so you'd end up with.. a 289.
What I hear is if I want a higher RPM windsor, start with a 289.
Thanks folks.
RossD said:What I hear is if I want a higher RPM windsor, start with a 289.
Thanks folks.
That is correct and the only choice that would breath well and spin to 10k! (with the right components....) Original 289 motors are to the moon in price as collectibles, but you can get a run of the mill 302 for cheap, an aftermarket 2.87" stroke crank and get there.
Going smaller cubes to get higher RPMs is really folly. If I'm going to have a 600-lb engine, I'm not going to cripple it by making it smaller than most V6s
I don't mind short stroke, in fact I like it for reliability, easier to get better rod/stroke ratios, and yes RPM potential, but for me it has to have the cubes to back it up. Those tiny bores won't breathe, so it won't be a screamer. Most you can overbore it is probably .040" so you won't get much breathing there.
Getting it to spin the "right" way is pretty easy. Remove whatever reverse rotation parts are there and replace with the vehicle version. Early on they did the whole kit and caboodle. You'll likely find a traditional timing chain which means the drive gear and distributor driven gear are backwards cut for the right thrust. The distributor itself is likely the same as a car version, just not vented for marine use. They just swapped the plug wires around for the right firing order.
Later marine reverse engines used a cam gear so the cam rotated the normal car rotation (opposite the reverse crankshaft) with special lobe patterns, but it meant they could use traditional dizzy gears.
The starter might work in both directions. For reverse rotation they just mounted a traditional starter pointing the other direction and mounted to the bellhousing instead of the block.
As far as the rotating assembly, don't worry. Back in the day people were all concerned about bearing thrusts and wear-in and they assumed that things would explode if you just started turning them CCW. Many engines have been turned around and they don't seem to know the difference. It's not like you have to rehone, regrind journals, and use new bearings. Just leave it alone and have fun.
Or you could leave it reverse rotation and stuff it in a Civic.
Streetwiseguy said:I dunno about that one, but the early Fox Mustangs came with the 255, and holy snapping arseholes, Batman, was it slow.
I had one of those in an early 80's Crown Vic. Slow wasn't appropriate, more like glacial.
RossD said:What I hear is if I want a higher RPM windsor, start with a 289.
Thanks folks.
Aftermarket 4.125 block and 351C heads?
As a general rule of thumb, if it is an American 2-valve, pushrod V8 and has a bore smaller than 4.000" (or cannot be opened up to at least 4.000") it is usually not worth playing with. The big exceptions I can think of are the 4.8L/5.3L/5.7L LS motor variants. Ford 221s, Mopar 318s, Chevy 305s, Oldsmobile 307s all of them are available for free because you are just better starting off with a 302, or a 360, or a 350, or a, well, you're better off not playing with Oldsmobile V8s in general.
The 8 cylinders with small bore and tiny valves would not be an issue with a turbo, but for my case, I wanted the v8 sound and a lopy cam.
However, after it overheated, where can I find another one? nowhere! I've never seen another 221 since. until this thread.
My parents had a 221 in a 1963 Meteor. Fast it wasn't.
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