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  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 1:39 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    I am building a 1993 Mustang 2.3 for E Prepared. I think we need a bit more power with a minimum weight of 2300 pounds. This car has the stock "late" 2.3 with "TwinSpark" dual plugs and EFI.

    how hard would it be to swap a cam? I have never actually modded a FI engine. would a cam swap mean we would have to modify the computer in any way? would it be easier to go to carbureted? would the ignition system still work if the fuel injection was removed, is it computer controlled?

    sorry if these are stupid questions, I have been buildind motors from the 60's for my whole car modding career....

  • P71

    April 21, 2009 2:00 p.m. P71 Dork

    For EP I'd just get a different car! You have a low power, heavy engine in a bad suspension, structural-rigidity-of-a-wet-noodle chassis. Not exactly a sporting combo.

    That said, cam swaps were super easy in the single-plug heads, I dunno about the twin sparkers though. EFI is soooo easy to mod you'll never go back to a carburetor. Buy a tuner, have fun.

    I still think you're using the wrong car...

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 2:23 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    oh, i know that I am using the wrong car, i like being an underdog...it is hard to compete against 1600cc Civics and CRX's that are allowed to run at 1600 lbs, but luckily none of them show up.

    I am going with this car because 1. it was free, and 2. we have less than 1G into it.

    what tuner would you recommend, and...how do I use it. OBD1 port?

  • P71

    April 21, 2009 2:44 p.m. P71 Dork

    There's so many out there now and I've been out of OBDI too long. I like my Superchips for the OBDII P71, but it's not very sophisticated. I've heard great thing about Hypertech.

    How much gear can you run? Is it a 5-speed car? Hatch or coupe? Sunroof?

    I think you're going to need to spend more time with the suspension then the engine.

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 3:39 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    we have the suspension pretty well taken care of, Koni Reds, Eibach Race springs, GT rear and V6 front sway bars, 15X6.5 rims with Ecsta Victoracers.

    unfortunately, and i am ashamed to admit this, but it is currently an A4LD transmission car...it is also a Convertible, but we put a full cage in instead of just a bolt in bar. it is way stiffer than any of the coupes ever were.

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 3:42 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    oh, we are trying to grab some 4.10 gears from a Ranger.

    we are trying to do this build in stages, because we are budget limited, but we have no dilusions that we will be fast out of the box.

    we are probably going to build a full race engine while continuing to run the stock engine...need to pick up a new block...

  • ReverendDexter

    April 21, 2009 3:49 p.m. ReverendDexter Reader

    Heh, I also had a 2.3L auto 'vert. Fun car, if grossly underpowered.

    The A4LD is the worst tranny I've ever had the displeasure to deal with. Mine went out TWICE in a year under normal driving. I can't recommend enough to get a 5-speed in that car before yours goes south. You'll get a huge bump in power to the rear wheels AND reliability from the tranny swap alone.

    Have you checked out Esslinger yet? When I had my 2.3, they seemed to be the ONLY people who made parts for them. I'm not sure if Jon Huber makes or sells parts, but he makes some ludicrously fast drag cars built around the turbo 2.3.

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 3:52 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    I have been a mustang guy since I was about 14, and I am really excited about finally getting one race ready. Eventually I wanna prep my 68 GT for CP.

    don't underestimate us just yet, we have the biggest displacement in the class!

  • belteshazzar

    April 21, 2009 4:09 p.m. belteshazzar Dork

    get a cam and some springs and wind her up. I don't know about the n/a version, but the turbo limas can take some rpms.

  • ReverendDexter

    April 21, 2009 4:12 p.m. ReverendDexter Reader

    You might also want to go back to the 4-cylinder front swaybar.

    I ran the SVO rear with my stock front, and even that was a little prone to understeer.

  • JFX001

    April 21, 2009 4:13 p.m. JFX001 Dork

    Also check out a C4 for the tranny. Racer Walsh is good for engine parts.

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 4:13 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    well unfortunately the Turbo is not legal for this class, and frankly I don't want to deal with turbos...those are REALLY outclassed...

    Esslinger has alot of the parts that I need, but not really any tech info, they don't say what a cam swap entails, and well, all of the ford 2.3 forums are full of shiny happy people that think performance is putting a 10" sub in a stock notch...

  • ReverendDexter

    April 21, 2009 4:18 p.m. ReverendDexter Reader

    I use modded mustangs for my main mustang forum. IIRC they have a pretty decent tech section for 2.3L cars.

    There are a few zealots there, though, so be careful, hahaha.

  • P71

    April 21, 2009 4:24 p.m. P71 Dork

    A T5 swap is DEFINITELY needed! Sounds like you have a decent handle on suspension. What are you doing for a steering box? Brakes?

    Esslinger was a huge help for me back in the day, and they really know their N/A stuff. Call the techline.

    For online advice you might want to find some circle-track guys that run N/A 2.0/2.3/2.5's. I couldn't agree with you more on the other shiny happy people...

  • maroon92

    April 21, 2009 4:31 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    steering is currently stock, we will se how long that lasts.

    brakes are Brembo stock replacements with some Yellowstuffs that we got a crazy deal on. the rears are currently drums, but again, that will be changed as soon as budget allows.

    orriginal plan for this was LeMons, but now we have so much time and effort into the car we are debating just keeping it as a Solo car.

    I went to Modded Mustangs, and you are right, they are better than most...not great, but better.

  • bamalama

    April 21, 2009 6:28 p.m. bamalama Reader

    maroon92 wrote:

    well unfortunately the Turbo is not legal for this class, and frankly I don't want to deal with turbos...those are REALLY outclassed...

    Esslinger has alot of the parts that I need, but not really any tech info, they don't say what a cam swap entails, and well, all of the ford 2.3 forums are full of shiny happy people that think performance is putting a 10" sub in a stock notch...

    The hardest thing about swapping the cam in a 2.3 is getting that stupid retainer plate off the back of the head. I had to learn the hard way that they're Posidrive screws and not Phillips heads.

  • P71

    April 21, 2009 6:39 p.m. P71 Dork

    Might want to swap steering boxes. I know Ford had a vast range of ratios/quickness so the fastest fox/SN95 box will probably help.

    Brembo makes 10" non-GT rotors? Sweet! I'd step up to at least the 11" GT brakes (use Mark VII rotors for 5-lug) but if the rules allow it a 13" Cobra/Mach 1/Bullitt swap would be even better. Same for the rear, try to go SN95 5-lug discs. Hell, swap out the whole rear end and gain some gear and an LSD.

  • maroon92

    April 22, 2009 2:02 a.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    actually, the 7.5 rear is alot lighter, almost as strong, and since they came on rangers, there is a HUGE variety of differentials with crazy low gears and of course limited slips...

    as for the steering box, any idea which one might be fastest? maybe one from a cobra or something?

    WTF is a posidrive screw?

    uprights and diff swaps are beyond the budget right now...maybe some day I will put it on something better, but this class limits rim to 15X7 without a weight penalty, and this car already has the highest minimum weight of the class (engine CC's times 1)

  • 44Dwarf

    April 22, 2009 6:17 a.m. 44Dwarf Reader

    check out the "MINI STOCK TECH" section on 4m.net

    Toss the head and get an older single unit.

  • P71

    April 22, 2009 9:53 a.m. P71 Dork

    I know the Turbo Coupe had a quicker box (but I dunno if the large fox box swaps over to the small), and the SN95's got a quicker one, but I don't know which is quickest and why. I do remember that my 2.3/A4 Vert Stang (besides being the world's slowest car) had the world's slowest steering.

    Good idea on the 7.5 with the Ranger gears, you can probably get something really gnarly in there.

    And a posidrive is the stupid screws used on the rear retaining plate for the cam. Machine shops can remove/install them no sweat but you'll kill yourself trying to do it at home.

    What do you have for a header/exhaust? There's a lot of power to be made there.

  • belteshazzar

    April 22, 2009 10:21 a.m. belteshazzar Dork

    I didn't even try to use a philips screw driver. I just grabbed them (the posidrive screws) with a fresh visegrip and that got em loose. The rest of the cam swap is a breeze too.

  • daytonaer

    April 22, 2009 11:07 a.m. daytonaer Reader

    maroon92 wrote:

    well unfortunately the Turbo is not legal for this class, and frankly I don't want to deal with turbos...those are REALLY outclassed...

    Esslinger has alot of the parts that I need, but not really any tech info, they don't say what a cam swap entails, and well, all of the ford 2.3 forums are full of shiny happy people that think performance is putting a 10" sub in a stock notch...

    I have a friend who runs the 2.3's NA for circle track. In the discussions I have had everything is basic. These guys are grassroots in my area, racing for pennies.

    He run's the ranger "header" manifold, solid lifters and gets the block decked for higher compression.

    I'm pretty sure he runs the stock cam with solid lifters, this allows the engine to spin 7-8000 rpm easily.

    I'm pretty sure he runs a carb but I don't know anything about it, nor if it will lean out if you make a right turn.

    I'll see if I can get any more info on the hot setup but I really doubt these guys are running hot cams and forged high comp pistons. Cheap and simple is how they work.

  • maroon92

    April 22, 2009 12:19 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    as for the header, I have a long tube unit I found in the junkyard for 12 bucks...patience is a vertue...

    I think we might just slowly build up a really hot N/A 2.3 twin plug with standalone from a junkyard block, then we can run this season to practice and then next winter we can install it...if we can figure out how to use MS...or afford it. to be even remotely competitive we need a crazy expensive time bomb under the hood.

  • maroon92

    April 22, 2009 12:27 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

    here is a picture of the header when i got it from the junkyard...there just happened to be another fox mustangw with a 2.3 header...wierd

    This is what the car looks like now, it is starting to come together...it had better be, the season opener is in 10 days...

    these are our rims, GT turbines on the front and GT Phonedials on the back with Victoracer V700's

  • John Brown

    April 22, 2009 12:28 p.m. John Brown MegaDork

    BB, and why aren't you just running a 1600lb Aspire with a 1.6l bottom end?

    Just saying.

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