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stroker
stroker UltraDork
9/6/18 8:18 a.m.

How many years has it been since Kubica was driving F1?   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he's physically able to do so after that horrible rally car wreck, but I can't believe he's the best choice for a serious F1 seat at this point.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 8:32 a.m.
stroker said:

How many years has it been since Kubica was driving F1?   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he's physically able to do so after that horrible rally car wreck, but I can't believe he's the best choice for a serious F1 seat at this point.

Agree.  He last raced F1 in 2010.  Numerous other drivers have had whole carreers come and go in the intervening eight years.  While he can drive an F1 car and has even done one full race simulation, I have to question if he's the best bet compared to younger fully physically able drivers.  He doesn't have full use of his arm, don't forget it was partially amputated in the rally crash with multiple compound fractures.  

wae
wae SuperDork
9/6/18 8:43 a.m.
stroker said:

How many years has it been since Kubica was driving F1?   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he's physically able to do so after that horrible rally car wreck, but I can't believe he's the best choice for a serious F1 seat at this point.

Not to pile on, but are we considering Williams to be a serious F1 seat?

 

(I kid, I kid)

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
9/6/18 8:50 a.m.

Kubica was/is a very talented driver. I wonder what his F1 career progression would've been without the rally crash to derail it.

It would make a good PR story to have him get a seat and that is the only way to really know if he was the best choice or not. I can see why the sponsors and/or team may want to give him a shot, but also think there must be more up and coming younger guys who may be better/faster.

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/6/18 8:55 a.m.

Kubica, Kvyat and Buemi, 2 out pof the 3 could be on the grid next year and 3 out of 3 Ocon, Vandoorne ,and George Russel won't be in F1 next year.  I watch Alonso going to Indycar/WEC. Bottas being a wingman and giving no fight for the championship for Lewis. Redbull is going with a Honda, and Riccardo is going to a unproven Renault. 2019 could turn out to be a big bust for F1.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/6/18 9:43 a.m.

Wow, the 2019 season is boring already! F1 fans are hard core.

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
9/6/18 9:46 a.m.

In reply to trigun7469 :

You listed out a bunch of things that makes me want to watch the 2019 season, then conclude that it may turn out to be a big bust.

Jim Pettengill
Jim Pettengill HalfDork
9/6/18 10:15 a.m.

Ocon is fast and a Mercedes guy, so I can't imagine that he's not under serious consideration at Williams. Haas haven't made any announcements for next year yet, so maybe Ocon or Kimi there (one can dream...)?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
9/6/18 11:44 a.m.

Why wont George Russel get a seat?

 

Isnt this his first year in F2?  If he wins the championship, that would be weaksauce for teh driver finishing 2nd to get a seat and teh champ does not...

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
9/6/18 12:02 p.m.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Worse, I think, is if he wins, he can't drive in F2 next season, due to the rules.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:22 p.m.

Agreed it could/will/may suck for Russel, but Norris is and has been a signed McLaren development driver.  Russel on the other hand is signed to Mercedes.  They already have their hands full trying to find a new home for Ocon, let alone trying to find a seat for another driver.  He could end up like Pier Gasly who after winning the GP2 series had to do a year in Japan driving in Super Formula until Minardi could give him a seat this year, well the last few races last year as well after they fired Kvyat.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
9/7/18 12:23 a.m.

On my measure, I think Erricson and Sirotkin are the only two guys I feel are not good enough to be on the grid in 2019. But their money is. 

Perez and Stroll I rate good enough to be kept and their money is good.

Drivers on par:

  • Hartley
  • Vandorne
  • Magnessen
  • Grosjean
  • Sainz
  • Wehrlein

Any of the new guys could replace one of the above without a big risk. But Sainz is locked in. And I feel Hartley may get locked in at Torro Rosso just to keep some consistency in the team. 

With younger drivers being hired, they have longer careers, then add in reduced number of teams and we end up with more limitations for rookies to find a place. 

 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/7/18 6:31 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

I broadly agree with your comments, especially Stroll.  I feel he has got a bad rap because of his money, but pay drivers have always been in F1 with unknown names like Lauda or Senna, any one who came up through the caffeinated sugar ranks and you could even argue Hamilton.  One area I disagree with is Sainz.  I rate him a lot higher than the rest in your list.  I feel he has a great future ahead of him

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
9/7/18 7:43 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

Wehrlein? I thought he was out because of his attitude, certainly isn't lighting it up in DTM and his teammate is in 2nd in the points while he is in 8th.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/7/18 10:34 a.m.

Toto Wolff on young driver development:

“Give us a third car, make it mandatory to put a young driver in there, with maximum two years in that car,” he said. “The costs wouldn't be huge, the grid would be packed, and we would have fantastic shows of new kids on the block coming up and fighting hard with the Valtteris and Lewises of this world and maybe surprising us. But owning another team just to have a place for our young drivers doesn't make sense for us.”

I like it.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
9/7/18 10:46 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I like that idea, too.  If the driver is capable enough, it also changes the team dimension, a lot.

codrus
codrus UltraDork
9/7/18 11:04 a.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I like that idea, too.  If the driver is capable enough, it also changes the team dimension, a lot.

It radically changes the dynamics of the constructor's championship, though.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/7/18 11:10 a.m.

No problem, the FIA already knows how to deal with that. In WRC, the constructors have to nominate what cars are going to be points-scoring for a given race. Actually, I think they nominate three cars and the top two score points. But it would be easy to adapt that - let the manufacturer decide before the race which two of the three cars can score constructor points. Voila, the sport survives.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
9/7/18 11:20 a.m.

Why not run the third car using last year's car?   Get some extra mileage out of it, or might that be more expensive than running the current car?

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
9/7/18 11:26 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

No problem, the FIA already knows how to deal with that. In WRC, the constructors have to nominate what cars are going to be points-scoring for a given race. Actually, I think they nominate three cars and the top two score points. But it would be easy to adapt that - let the manufacturer decide before the race which two of the three cars can score constructor points. Voila, the sport survives.

The other thing I would do is increase the number of points positions a little more. 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/7/18 11:32 a.m.

Funny isn't it.  Just a few years ago when the 'new' teams were collapsing (Lotus ne-Caterham, Hispania ne-HRT and  Marissia ne Manor) the FIA and CVC both floated the idea of three car teams.  The teams were instantly in uproar saying it was too expensive and they couldn't afford it.  Suddenly 3-4 years later at least one of the teams seems to think it's a good idea.

 

I'm actually in favor of it though.  I would put in a rule that only new to F1 drivers can drive the 3rd car and then for a max of two years.  My first thought was that If a driver wins in the third car in his/her first year he couldn't drive the third car in his/her second year.  But then I realized that was stupid as that could leave a GP winner with no drive the following year so I'm no longer in favor of it.  I wouldn't do the WRC thing of nominating which cars/drivers you want to score manufacturer points, instead I'd just make the third car exempt from all manufacturer points completely.  Even to the point that if say a third car came 2nd, then instead of the third place car getting the normal 15 manufacturer points for finishing 3rd, it would get the full 18 points for a 2nd place finish.  I'd do that to make sure the smaller teams (Farce Canada, Uncle Franks garage etc.) didn't get penalized by third cars taking or preventing them from fighting for manufacturer points.  Drivers points are awarded to everyone as today, no matter if they are the #1, the Kimi or the #3 driver. 

Even if 'Only' Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and McLaren (the likely candidates) fielded three cars, that would still take the current tally up from 20 to 24 drivers which is getting close to my ideal of the historical 26 starters.  The whole thing would have to be re-evaluated if we ever got back to or over 26 cars on the grid.  A short term solution to prevent lower teams losing out the last place on the grid would be too ask the third car teams to drop one race each in turn to make sure all teams could enter their cars and fight for a chance.

One more thing, you could (try) and write the rules such as the third car makes do with prior spec parts as the season goes on.  that would help defray some of the sunk costs but could be hard to implement.

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
9/7/18 11:34 a.m.

I like the 3 cars per team idea. 10 more cars would make for more traffic and more difficulty for the leaders lapping the backmarkers.

I somehow think the struggling teams would be dead set against it. Why would Williams want to qualify with the bottom three places for example? How much additional money would it take and are the pit lanes big enough to support 10 more cars?

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler PowerDork
9/7/18 11:39 a.m.

I like it, too. We are seeing that there are plenty of guys with F1-level talent who deserve a shot, but there are so few seats they aren't getting one.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
9/7/18 12:37 p.m.

I don't think all teams would go to 3 cars - as noted, it is a potentially untenable cost increase for the struggling teams. The manufacturers should definitely do it, as those cars shouldn't be backmarkers but instead would be keeping the veterans honest. It might really wake up the midfield.

How do you write the rule book to distinguish between Caterham style teams and Red Bull?

There should be enough pit space for 26 cars. 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/7/18 1:55 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

You don't.  You leave it up to the teams.  The big boys (Merc, the Red purse gang, Regie and the ghost of Bruce) would all jump at the extra car to fight for them, even if it couldn't score manufacturer points(*) while the rest wouldn't as they couldn't afford to.  The sugar drug company already has two teams so they wouldn't need a third car.

 

(*) While a third car can't score manufacturers points, it sure as hell could block other teams drivers, hold them back and push them into the grasp of another driver and take points away from other teams so still has massive use for a team.

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