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FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/14/11 2:16 p.m.

Simple question: Is the Mustang V6 and the upcoming Toyota/subaru FT-86 in the same category?

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
3/14/11 2:23 p.m.

Have definet specs been published yet? Over all I doubt it.

failboat
failboat Reader
3/14/11 2:26 p.m.

Isnt it rumored to be only around 200hp, from an N/A flat four?

Thats Genesis 2.0t territory at this point.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
3/14/11 2:40 p.m.

I think that's the $64k question. The 3.7L in the Mustang is pushing just over 300hp and ~280 ft-lbs in a vehicle that weighs just under 3500 lbs. The EJxx in the FT86 is rumored to be about 200hp, ??? tq, so just hp to hp, for equal power:weight, it'll need to be down around 2300 lbs.

And yes, power:weight's not everything, but when we're trying to bench race cars that don't have anything beyond rumor for their specs, it's the best you're gonna get.

scardeal
scardeal HalfDork
3/14/11 3:07 p.m.

Mustang-V6 (300hp) is FS. FT-86 could be DS (vs e36 328i), ES? (vs Porsche 944), or GS (vs Genesis 2.0). If I had to bet, I'd say GS.

So, I do think they'd be in different classes, at least for AutoX. It really depends on what it ends up weighing and it's stock wheel width. I think it's been revealed that it's got MacStruts up front with a multilink rear.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey HalfDork
3/14/11 3:30 p.m.

I'll eat my helmet if the FT86 weighs 2,300lbs.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy Reader
3/14/11 3:36 p.m.
DaveEstey wrote: I'll eat my helmet if the FT86 weighs 2,300lbs.

HAHAHAHA...... yeah right......... 2300#s is pretty light... for comparison... the AE86 curb weight was 2450#s

I'm betting the FT86 comes in closer to 2900.

my little Corolla is about 2300#s

Raze
Raze Dork
3/14/11 3:38 p.m.
DaveEstey wrote: I'll eat my helmet if the FT86 weighs 2,300lbs.

I'd pay to watch that

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
3/14/11 4:10 p.m.
oldeskewltoy wrote: the AE86 curb weight was 2450#s

Um, what? Maybe for a hatch with an automatic and every option, including a sunroof. My 5-speed SR5 Coupe had a curb weight of 2150.

And I don't expect the FT86 to be 2300 lbs. I'd really, really, really like it to be down around there, and I'll be pretty happy to see it under 2500, but I don't don't even expect that. Certainly not from Toyota. I'm expecting the Subaru version to be a bit more performance oriented, though, and consequently lighter, but still not that light.

FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/14/11 5:20 p.m.

Umm I think I should have defined the question better.

Will the Mustang V6 and the FT-86 be competing for the same new car demographic?

I just keep remembering the Genesis Coupe - 370Z - Mustang comparo that Motor Trend did. Although that seems like an odd comparo the core market is the same. RWD Sports Coupe

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
3/14/11 5:31 p.m.

In reply to ReverendDexter:

I'm not sure what to exspect out of the subaru version. I doubt they would give up the bragging rights/marketing of "Standard AWD on EVERYTHING!!!" just for a niche vehicle. That said, I would love some 2 door subbie action.

And back on topic, I think it would be more competition for the Miata than the Mustang. Maybe it would get those that want a miata but need 4 seats.

sanman
sanman New Reader
3/14/11 5:55 p.m.

It all depends on where on the weight/wheelbase scale this thing will land. Given that the last Celica was 2500 lbs and the current tC is around 3100 lbs, I can see something around ~2850 lbs coming out and competing the Miata and the 2.0 genesis. If it is any heavier, it will be thrown in with the mustang v6 and other cars that outclass it.

FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/14/11 6:58 p.m.

I never realized the current tC was so portly, at least not the car (my initials are TC)

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy Reader
3/14/11 7:13 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote: the AE86 curb weight was 2450#s

Um, what? Maybe for a hatch with an automatic and every option, including a sunroof. My 5-speed SR5 Coupe had a curb weight of 2150.

curb weight is as produced... not after extensive lightening

curb weight 2450, test weight 2640

sanman
sanman New Reader
3/14/11 7:54 p.m.
FlightService wrote: I never realized the current tC was so portly, at least not the car (my initials are TC)

I believe that it is 50 lbs less with the manual, but all of that bracing for the panoramic sunroof takes a toll.

killerkane
killerkane New Reader
3/14/11 7:59 p.m.

I haven't heard anything about this car, does anyone know what it will be priced at? It would be nice to see cars start getting lighter again!

RexSeven
RexSeven Dork
3/14/11 8:13 p.m.

In reply to killerkane:

The silence from Toyota and Subaru about the FT-86 has been deafening. We probably will not get any concrete numbers until the New York Auto Show starting April 22, when the Scion FT-86 is scheduled to debut.

corytate
corytate Reader
3/14/11 8:49 p.m.

friend at school had an older mustang rated at about what the new v6 is rated and just traded his other car for a new v6 to get lower payments. says it may be rated the same but the v6 feels like trash compared to supposedly the same power in the v8 he used to have. maybe the sae ratings are optimistic, its super heavy, or it has a LOT of loss

RexSeven
RexSeven Dork
3/14/11 9:01 p.m.

Are you talking about the 2011+ Mustang? If he got a 2010 or earlier S197 'Stang then it still had the ancient Cologne V-6 in it. If he got a newer Mustang, then is the final gearing stock? There is an optional 3.31 rear axle ratio that's available alone or with the handling package. It improves acceleration but reduces mileage (the buff sites quote around 26-27mpg with the shorter gearing). I want to test-drive a V-6 Mustang with the handling package but they do. not. exist.

Jamesc2123
Jamesc2123 Reader
3/14/11 10:08 p.m.

Silence? They just showed off a closer-to-production concept at the Geneva auto show..still not a production concept, but they gave more info than any point previous.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/geneva-2011-toyota-ft-86-ii-concept/#continued

The dimensions are listed as "2,570mm wheelbase, 4,235mm long, 1,795mm wide and just 1,270mm high." That's about 10 inches longer, 3" wider, and the same height as a Mazda MX-5. The MX-5 for reference is about 2500 lbs., so the FT86 should be ballpark anywhere from that 2500 to 2700 or so. Also, a 2.0 NA engine should put them in the 160-180 hp range. That's my ham-brained reckoning at least, your ham-brain may reckon differently.

To the original question, though: If this and the mustang have similar performance specs, similar practicality, but drastically different sizes, can they still be considered "competitors"? I don't know, I'd be hard pressed to choose between them...

Luke
Luke SuperDork
3/14/11 10:18 p.m.
RexSeven wrote: If he got a 2010 or earlier S197 'Stang then it still had the ancient Cologne V-6 in it.

Wow, had no idea Ford was still using that engine.

FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/14/11 10:22 p.m.
sanman wrote:
FlightService wrote: I never realized the current tC was so portly, at least not the car (my initials are TC)

I believe that it is 50 lbs less with the manual, but all of that bracing for the panoramic sunroof takes a toll.

I thought it was the Pizza and Beer

FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/14/11 10:25 p.m.
Luke wrote:
RexSeven wrote: If he got a 2010 or earlier S197 'Stang then it still had the ancient Cologne V-6 in it.

Wow, had no idea Ford was still using that engine.

It was a very evolved version, SOHC up to 4.0L same as in the truck. I don't think ANY parts would swap but it did evolve from the old 2.8 from back in the day.

forzav12
forzav12 Reader
3/15/11 12:20 a.m.
RexSeven wrote: Are you talking about the 2011+ Mustang? If he got a 2010 or earlier S197 'Stang then it still had the ancient Cologne V-6 in it. If he got a newer Mustang, then is the final gearing stock? There is an optional 3.31 rear axle ratio that's available alone or with the handling package. It improves acceleration but reduces mileage (the buff sites quote around 26-27mpg with the shorter gearing). I want to test-drive a V-6 Mustang with the handling package but they do. not. exist.

Yes they do, I drove one last week as part of a Mustang comparo. Good car, BTW.

FlightService
FlightService Reader
3/15/11 8:32 a.m.

In reply to forzav12:

That new V6 is a blast to drive, just a little more hesitation on the bottom end than the old 4.6 V8. It wouldn't take much to get it better, and great gas mileage too!

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