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AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/26/20 9:18 p.m.

Okay I will need to do some welding on my 2020 challenge car.  I will also need to paint my newest car addition.  I'm also getting older and want a 4 post lift for storage and repairs.

So I've decided based largely on docwyte's advice and experience to go Bendpak and that's about 4k all in.  That purchase will wait until Dec this year or next January.  I need an air source and 220V to run this lift.  

Since I'm installing 220V soon, I want to get the compressor and welder first.  I also want to get a MIG welder.  

I just got a $1000 amazon gift card from work for 10 yrs service.  What compressor or welder would you get?  Also what other items do I need for the compressor, filter, regulator, hose reel?

It's a 2 car garage and just me working in it about 400 sq ft.  Do I need to rum pipe and multiple drops?  

For the welder, I have been learning on a Miller 211 and I like it.  Save up for it?  Get a 215 in case I want to TIG later on?  Or can I live with a heavier old style machine like the Hobart 190 since it doesn't need to be super mobile?  Red or blue?  It seems like they are both similar in price for dual voltage or multi process machines.  

Compressor or welder first?  

I have $1500 to use today and can save and have more soon.  This includes the amazon gift card.  

ShinnyGroove
ShinnyGroove Reader
1/26/20 10:23 p.m.

I got into 18v cordless tools a few years ago and sold my compressor this year. Haven't missed it yet. 

 

Also not a fan of multi process welders. I think the Miller you have picked out is pretty good for wire feed. I'm hearing good things about the AlphaTIG on Amazon for TIG. 

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
1/26/20 11:17 p.m.

I have the miller 211 and love it.  Highly recommended.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/26/20 11:22 p.m.

In reply to ShinnyGroove :

I hear ya on the battery tools but the lift needs air to lock and unlock.  I also would like to start painting so air is going to be a need.  

Jumper K Balls (Trent)
Jumper K Balls (Trent) PowerDork
1/27/20 12:01 a.m.

The size of the air compressor you need will be dictated by the spray gun you will be using. 

Find the gun you want and go from there. I'd guess a 5hp 60 gallon unit is going to be the smallest feasible one

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/27/20 7:50 a.m.
Jumper K Balls (Trent) said:

The size of the air compressor you need will be dictated by the spray gun you will be using. 

Find the gun you want and go from there. I'd guess a 5hp 60 gallon unit is going to be the smallest feasible one

You are correct.  That is the size I am looking at because every gun I've considered needs about 10 cfm at 20 psi ish.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
1/27/20 8:52 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS :

Unless you are going to be putting the lift up and down a dozen times per day, skip the 220 and the air lines.

A small pancake compressor dedicated to the lift will supply all the air that you need for that. I needed a nail gun, and an extra $20 got me a nail gun with a compressor at Home Depot.

 

Skip the aluminum ramps and the jack bridge from BendPack. Get the rolling jack trolley from Challenger and some Race Ramps. If you really want BendPack aluminum ramps, I will sell you mine.

I have a Lincoln SP-135 Plus that meets all my welding needs. I'm not building bridges or even heavy trailers.

Painting CFM...well, I can't help you there.

 

Would 220 be better? Sure, but I get a lot of work done with this setup. 

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
1/27/20 8:54 a.m.

Depending on which Bendpak you get the race ramps can be very, very expensive for it.  I found out the hard way.  The bridge jack is awesome!  However the bridge jack will NOT run off a pancake compressor.  I've got an oiled, 2 stage 30 gallon 110v compressor and the bridge jack will empty it completely before I'm done lifting the vehicle.  I'd rather have a 60-80 gallon compressor but I was constrained by my lack of two 220v circuits.

A pancake compressor will run the bendpak lift itself just fine.

Jumper K Balls (Trent)
Jumper K Balls (Trent) PowerDork
1/27/20 9:27 a.m.

Are you sure you really want a 4 post lift?

 

I find that a 4 post is a complete hassle for 95% of the things I want a car on the lift for. Even if you spend the extra for a bridge jack, or fab up some bridges for yourself and use bottle jacks that just blocks more access to what you put the car on a lift to get access to. 

I have had employees out of work for a week because of back strain injuries caused by trying to bend around a 4 post to get access to suspension bits. I personally have suffered a minor concussion by bashing my head into the cross bars on them whilst trying to squeeze into where I need to be.

IMO 4 posts are really only good for oil changes, exhaust work and alignments. 

I know they have their fans and the "great for storage" thing comes up a lot but a 2 post is great for storage too.

 

If your concrete pad can't support a 2 post ignore everything I have said. 

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/27/20 10:59 a.m.

My 2 post problem is that I need the storage capacity the most.

After consulting here and garage journal (read there and don't post), I ended up with a 60 gallon quincy Q13160QV.  It'll make 10 cfm at 100 and 14.6 at 40 psi.  The paint guns I'm looking at need 10.5 cfm at 40 psi.  

I also got an install kit ( steel braided hose and mounting pads to regulator ), a regulator, and a 50 ft hose reel.  I will drain the tank manually for now but may add a separator / filter too.  I ran compressors on the sub, so know a bit about this stuff.  I also got the maintenance kit to get the 3 yr warranty on pump and 2 on everything else.  

Next up call electrician and get garage wired for 220V times 3 machines.  I figure I can do it on 2 circuits with NEMA plugs.  I won't ever need all 3 (lift, conpressor and welder at once).

This may be overkill, but I will never need another compressor and I have 12 or more years in this house / garage to go.

After this, welder will be next purchase, and then the lift.  Based on bridge jack needs, I'm glad I got the compressor.  

I also need to get my garage door converted to a side drive and high lift tracks to utilize my 10 ft ceiling.  I will probably do that for my birthday in November.

I can build my own wood ramps for my lift easily.  I will make them to fit the garage lip and fairly long for lowered P cars. 

Thanks for all the tips and advice.

 

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltimaDork
1/27/20 11:01 a.m.

Are you a SCCA member?  Is so, you can get off lease welders from Lincoln for a crazy discount, like 1/2 price. These are units used by NASCAR shops for a short period then turned back in to Lincoln. Got mine late last summer, works fine. Doesn't have a scratch on it.

It's a 180 amp 110/220 volt. Much more heavy duty than the Home Depot model of the same output.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/27/20 1:02 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku :

Funny you should ask.  I tried signing up last year but the SCCA website tried to tell me my address isn't valid.  It's a new build house.  I have no idea why the SCCA computer system, UPS, FedEX, amazon etc are all tied to a gov't database, but I can assure you they are.  The post office actually spelled our street wring which confirms this connection on almost all websites.  So no I am not currently a member, but thank you for the tip.

 

This ranks up there with undesired tracking devices in your new car.  I had to opt out of GMs driver monitoring program too, so I know my new Chevy spies on me too.

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
1/28/20 8:38 a.m.

In reply to Jumper K Balls (Trent) :

I put a lot of thought into which lift to buy, 2 post vs 4.  I ended up with a 4 post lift.  They fit in a residential garage much better, I mostly use it for storage and don't want the suspension in droop for 4 months of winter and honestly I've never had an issue with access.  I have bridge jacks for both ends of the car and wheels off brake/suspension work is really easy.

I'm not a professional and I'm not dropping engines/transmissions in my garage.  If I were, on a regular basis, then my opinion could be different but for a hobby-ist, a 4 post lift with 1 or 2 bridge jacks is pretty awesome.

wawazat
wawazat HalfDork
1/28/20 9:26 a.m.

I've got an older Husky 7HP/60 gallon tank compressor and the only time it has struggled was when i had my blasting cabinet.  It's big but has served me well for close to 20 years now.  Hose reel, hose, air tools, ect wil depend upon your layout and usage.  Ive been using hose without a reel for a long time though I did hang a reel recently.  I need to plumb it in soon.  

I had a Millermatic 250 MIG machine.  Worked great and had enough power for anything I needed to do.  Sold it when we moved and sold the blasting cabinet too.  More power is better though not always needed.

 

 

SkinnyG
SkinnyG UltraDork
1/28/20 9:47 a.m.

Make sure the compressor is wired for 3X the full load amperage.  Looks like yours is a 3.5hp - should be adequate for almost everything.

I wanted the 7.5hp 2-stage IR compressor, but it would need wiring for 90A, and I only have 100A to the shop. I settled on the 5hp 2-stage, and it keeps up with all my air tools, including the blast cabinet.

 

codrus
codrus UberDork
1/28/20 11:19 a.m.
docwyte said:

I put a lot of thought into which lift to buy, 2 post vs 4.  I ended up with a 4 post lift.  They fit in a residential garage much better

This is it in a nutshell.  2-post lifts are better in many ways but they just don't fit, not if you want to park a second car next to the lift.  If you have a big shop then everything is different.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/28/20 12:13 p.m.

In reply to codrus :

This is my predicament exactly.  I need to fit 3 cars in my garage.

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
1/28/20 2:48 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS :

Yup me too.  3 seasons of the year I have three cars parked on the garage floor.  During the winter the 911 sleeps up on the lift.  Technically I could fit 4 cars in the garage if I left one up on the lift all the time.

However I've found having a car up on the lift really cuts down on its use.  You're just not going to move the car underneath, drop the lift, put the ramps on, pull the car off the lift, put the ramps up, lift the lift, put the other car underneath it, then do the reverse again when you've gotten back home for just a quick trip.

That's why I made the effort to be able to fit the 911 on the garage floor most of the year.  That way if I want to use it for a short trip/errand it's no big deal to hop in and go...

codrus
codrus UberDork
1/28/20 3:32 p.m.
docwyte said:

However I've found having a car up on the lift really cuts down on its use.  You're just not going to move the car underneath, drop the lift, put the ramps on, pull the car off the lift, put the ramps up, lift the lift, put the other car underneath it, then do the reverse again when you've gotten back home for just a quick trip.

Agreed, part of the reason I've driven my Miata on the street so infrequently lately is because it's always up on the lift.  It's made worse by the fact that the car underneath is the FD, and that rotary does NOT like to be started from cold, backed out onto the driveway, and then shut down.

What I really need to do is swap which car lives on the lift and which one underneath every couple weeks.

 

gearheadmb
gearheadmb SuperDork
1/29/20 8:42 a.m.

A question for you guys with bigger welders (175+ amps), do they do ok with thin material? I used a 140 hobart on car replacement panels and it worked beautifully, but when I tried with a relative's 2xx amp welder on sheet metal it didn't work well at all. Ugly welds and blowing holes in the material. It is great with 1/8" and thicker. I need to buy a welder and my thinking is buy a small mig and if I need to do heavy material I can get a stick welder for that. What are your opinions?

SkinnyG
SkinnyG UltraDork
1/29/20 9:49 a.m.

I've not had any problems, in fact they seem to do thinner better - but I always run 0.023" wire, which might make the difference.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
1/29/20 7:05 p.m.

This is one of the reasons I am leaning to a Miller 211.  I know with dual voltage and Miller quality, I can weld a variety of material thicknesses and both steel and aluminum once I have the skills to do my part right.  One of my first projects is going to be custom barstools for our new house.  I also would like to make a small firepit for our front porch.   I already know how to do a passable job on the wood portions thanks to my dad, but I'm still a beginner welder for sure.  Hopefully by summer I have enough ability to do the portion I need done on the challenge car. 

 

codrus
codrus UberDork
1/29/20 7:11 p.m.

I have a 211, one of the older, heavier, non-inverter ones.  I don't know if I'm really qualified to review it, but I will say that for someone with as little welding experience as I have it seems to work remarkably well.

 

SkinnyG
SkinnyG UltraDork
1/29/20 9:13 p.m.

I have a Miller 210 at work, and the kiddies use it and it's been pretty reliable.  Good welder. Only recently it needed the voltage switch cleaned inside, and our first whip replacement. It might be 10 or 15 years old, I don't really remember.

We also have the spool gun attachment for the 210 so I can do aluminum.  I don't really enjoy the spool gun compared to TIG, but it does work.

I also have a Miller 140 auto-set as well.  I use it in the auto shop for patch panels and exhaust for the most part, and in the metal shop when I need a more mobile welder.  Good welder, just don't bother with the auto set feature - use the chart with slightly less wire. Not had any problems with it at all. It's maybe 10 years old, and zero problems.

I have a Lincoln 140 at home, hardware store variety.  Zero problems also, but only -I- use it, no students.  It doesn't seem to weld quite as nice as the more expensive Millers at work, but it will indeed weld just fine (just doesn't "feel" as polished as the others).

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
2/3/20 9:05 p.m.

Compressor is here.

So my work gave me a gift card which I put on Amazon.com.  They give you a code and a choice of websites.  I ordered the compressor, hose reel, etc from compressorsdirect.com using my amazon acct.  Since I selected my amazon card (since the total was higher than my gift card), I found out amazon does not use gift card balances for 3rd party sales........ thanks.  So with the gift card, I ordered side steps for my daily Colorado because I'm tired of helping kiddo and grandma into it and we are taking it to Santa Fe next month.  I also ordered the Miller Arcstation 30 because it's expensive, and I will need a portable welding table for my 2 car garage and welder. 

Since I already have a balance on my Amazon card again (which I don't like but will pay off in April), I'm tempted to order the welder now too.  However, if I wait the 211 will go back on the build with blue special in a few months which is a $200 rebate.  The table also had one leg buggered up in shipping so I'm going to see if Miller will send me a new plastic foot for it. 

The electrician already came by for an estimate and will be installing 2 220V outlets this weekend and adding a cord to the compressor.  I checked the Miller 211, compressor and power unit for the Bendpak are all single phase 220V and max is 30A.  So I think I'm going to go with 2 30+ amp services. 

 

 

 

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