it could easily happen if people didn't need wasteful things like Air Conditioning, or Air Bags, or power anything...
basically if it were my Aspire.
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Oct. 7, 2009 9:19 p.m. maroon92 UberDork
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Oct. 7, 2009 10:14 p.m. keethrax Reader
MitchellC wrote:
I think that the expectation of $20k RWD coupe is chasing a unicorn. My SVT Focus, a 170 hp FWD hatch, was $18k 7 years ago. Nowadays 200 hp is considered pretty weak, yet the expectation is that an engine more powerful than that as well as a chassis to accommodate it should cost just about the same as my Focus did when it was new. Sorry, but it just won't happen.
I agree.
I'm not looking for some mythical cheap, light, high powered modern RWD coupe out of this
I'd like to get two of the three, but one is OK if it's exceptional.
What I don't want is a heavy, underpowered, expensive(ish) RWD coupe.
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Oct. 7, 2009 10:26 p.m. mad_machine UberDork
I agree with not needing a lot of HP if the car is light and fun. Look at Mazda and the Miata. That is the picture perfect way of making a low hp slow car LOTS of fun to drive.
Even my Ti, at 2700 pounds and 138 is a lot of fun. If only Toyota can get close to that
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Oct. 7, 2009 10:53 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork
MitchellC wrote:
I think that the expectation of $20k RWD coupe is chasing a unicorn. My SVT Focus, a 170 hp FWD hatch, was $18k 7 years ago. Nowadays 200 hp is considered pretty weak, yet the expectation is that an engine more powerful than that as well as a chassis to accommodate it should cost just about the same as my Focus did when it was new. Sorry, but it just won't happen.
I disagree. If a company can sell a brand-new FWD hatchback for $10k (Accent, Versa), then they can sell the same motor in a RWD configuration driving a chapman strut IRS for $15k.
So long as they're free with the specs, they won't even have to have that much in the way of performance options; the aftermarket will take care of that.
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Oct. 7, 2009 11:14 p.m. mad_machine UberDork
Maybe we can see a return to "stripper" models that you can add options to?
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Oct. 7, 2009 11:51 p.m. jcanracer Reader
honestly, the only way Toyota is going to pull off a sub-20K rwd coupe that the teenies will buy in droves is if they bring the Daihatsu OFC (kei car) to American soil and brand it as a Scion.
This particular endeavor will neither be under 20K nor will it be everything the enthusiast wants/needs. But i Do hope the aftermarket steps up to the challenge. Eitherway, sign me up.
And to MitchellC and ReverendDexter, I know what you guys mean about the sub-200hp cars being fun, my matrix is probably 2800lbs and i get 150 to the front wheels, and although its got no torque, its plenty fun to push to the limits.
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Oct. 8, 2009 8:14 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork
PHeller wrote:
Xceler8x wrote: 25k - 30k minimum.
In that case I'm disappointed in Toyota for using the AE86 fanbase as a way of getting people interested in a car that shares nothing in common with the namesake, besides being RWD.
+1
The "fastback" top is a major turnoff visually, few cars apart from classic American muscle cars can pull it off. It doesn't look good on the GT-R and it doesn't look good on this. It's almost as jarring and awkward as the 240Z windows that were shoehorned onto the 370Z.
The interior is VERY nice, definitely the best of any new car and the best in many years. Inside the car looks like it came from an alternate dimension where car design has steadily progressed throughout the years. It looks like how you'd expect a car to look in 2009 instead of the filing-cabinet-with-a-steering-wheel abominations you usually see these days.
Exterior, again, even if you try not to look at that fastback top (ugh), I'm not really digging it. It needs to be shorter (in height) and I'm sad they didn't bring the same sportbike-ish styling to the exterior as they did to the interior. It just looks like every other late-model sports car. Making it more angular could have gone a long way - AE86s were extremely angular cars, the FT86 is almost a jellybean. And the car looks big. They should try to get it down to the size of a Toyota Echo/Yaris.
Performance-wise, I would have preferred an inline engine (maybe a 2ZZ-GE), especially for maintenance and weight savings, but the boxer's OK. What's gonna kill this car is the weight. Toyota's been holding out on revealing it but I think we all know that this car is gonna be a fatty, and that is a deal-breaker, more than the price which is likely to be $25-$30K.
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Oct. 8, 2009 8:41 a.m. Jay Dork
Someone posted this up on another forum I visit. It was supposed to be a joke...
...but I think it kinda works!
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Oct. 8, 2009 9:00 a.m. MadScientistMatt Dork
zipty842 wrote:
MadScientistMatt wrote:
Who else saw the name and thought they'd ruined it with a Tercel engine before reading the article?
FT-86 would actually indicate that its a corona with a land cruiser I6.
Oops, had my E and F motors confused. An inline six Corona might be kind of interesting...
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Oct. 8, 2009 9:17 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork
Jay wrote:
Someone posted this up on another forum I visit. It was supposed to be a joke...
...but I think it kinda works!
Hey that's a definite improvement!
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Oct. 8, 2009 1:03 p.m. mad_machine UberDork
GameboyRMH wrote:
The "fastback" top is a major turnoff visually, few cars apart from classic American muscle cars can pull it off. It doesn't look good on the GT-R and it doesn't look good on this. It's almost as jarring and awkward as the 240Z windows that were shoehorned onto the 370Z.
I happen to like the fastback styling.. which i think originally came from europe before making it onto some american muscle cars. The Ferrari's pre-mid-engined were mostly convertables or fastbacks and all looked lovely.
I do agree that the 350/370z could be a LOT prettier
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Oct. 8, 2009 1:11 p.m. RossD HalfDork
The miata starts at $22.5k, so I think sharing the FT-86 platform between two manufacturers could drive the price below "two stacks of high society".
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Oct. 8, 2009 1:38 p.m. captainzib Reader
jcanracer wrote:
This will be my next car, i no longer give a damn if the wife wants to complain that 2dr 4 seaters are impractical....
as for the lack of turbo...its still vanilla Toyota underneath it all. There will be a 2.0 NA for fuel economy bragging rights and then a GT-S with the 2.5L i am fairly sure of it. Question is, will the revival of Toyota as a fun car also prompt a revival of TRD as anything useful?
Not on this car. STi would be more useful.
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Oct. 8, 2009 2:26 p.m. John Brown MegaDork
From CARS
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Oct. 12, 2009 3:27 a.m. ae86andkp61 Reader
PHeller wrote:
In that case I'm disappointed in Toyota for using the AE86 fanbase as a way of getting people interested in a car that shares nothing in common with the namesake, besides being RWD.
Well, if it uses a smaller and less-powerful, economy-model-based, normally-aspirated engine, then it will have a lot in common with the namesake aside from being a RWD coupe.
GameboyRMH wrote:
And the car looks big. They should try to get it down to the size of a Toyota Echo/Yaris.
Performance-wise, I would have preferred an inline engine (maybe a 2ZZ-GE), especially for maintenance and weight savings, but the boxer's OK. What's gonna kill this car is the weight. Toyota's been holding out on revealing it but I think we all know that this car is gonna be a fatty, and that is a deal-breaker
The car might LOOK big, but it is actually small. I think it is a lot smaller than most people realize, especially when everyone keeps mentioning the Mustang, 370Z, and Skyline...this car is much smaller than any of those others. It IS the size of an Echo or Yaris, or a slightly wider old AE86. Take a peek at these numbers, all units in inches.
FT86 Concept:
Length--163.8 Width--69.3 Height--49.6 Wheelbase--101.2
1985 Toyota Corolla GT-S (AE86)
Length--165.3 Width--63.9 Height--52.3 Wheelbase--94.5
2005 Toyota Echo:
Length--164.8 Width--65.4 Height--59.4 Wheelbase--93.3
2010 Toyota Yaris:
Length--169.3 Width--66.5 Height--57.5 Wheelbase--100.4
The other way to look at the size is that is is the same width and height as an NC Miata, and only six inches longer.
It is true that the weight is a potential concern and at this point we just don't know, but I can't imagine that a car 10-15 inches shorter than a Mustang/Genesis/Z, several inches narrower than a Mustang/Genesis/Z, and with an engine around half the displacement of the V6 cars is likely to be at least a little bit lighter.
I agree that the cost is a potential concern, and would also agree that an inline engine would have been better but I am still very excited about this car. Even if the production version is a bit heavier and pricier than the concept, it should still match if not better the other choices on the market on both fronts. This car really brings back a market segment that has been dead for over a decade, if not more like 20 years, the affordable compact RWD coupe. IMO, the RX-8 is the only thing that has come close, but a rotary isn't for everyone, so I am stoked to see a potential competitor with pistons.
Unlike the majority, I am thrilled to see it only 2-liters and normally aspirated. I have hopes that the powerplant can keep the car more like a modern take on the AE86, (light, simple, high-revs, fun) instead of just being a RWD WRX/STi coupe like many others seem to wish for.
I can't wait for a test drive!
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Oct. 12, 2009 4:24 a.m. Luke Dork
GameboyRMH wrote:
The interior is VERY nice, definitely the best of any new car and the best in many years. Inside the car looks like it came from an alternate dimension where car design has steadily progressed throughout the years. It looks like how you'd expect a car to look in 2009 instead of the filing-cabinet-with-a-steering-wheel abominations you usually see these days.
Ah, but that's the concept car interior. Concept car interiors have been looking badass and awesome for years. The production car interior will more than likely resemble a filing-cabinet with some faux-chrome trim.
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Oct. 12, 2009 6:19 a.m. Jay Dork
If they fit that with a properly sporty black,-black,-and-more-black-with-black-trim leather interior, it'd just about be perfect. None of this white or "airy" light grey crap.
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Oct. 12, 2009 8:27 a.m. mad_machine UberDork
the only trouble I see... the boxer engine is NOT very suspension friendly if they want to keep it between the wheels. Even in subarus it sits pretty far forwards
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Oct. 12, 2009 8:59 a.m. GameboyRMH UltraDork
mad_machine wrote:
the only trouble I see... the boxer engine is NOT very suspension friendly if they want to keep it between the wheels. Even in subarus it sits pretty far forwards
I think that has more to do with the impreza's AWD layout - the half shafts for the front wheels come out just behind the bellhousing. There's no reason they can't fit the engine behind the front wheels on this, especially since the boxer is so short.
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Oct. 12, 2009 9:00 a.m. GameboyRMH UltraDork
Jay wrote:
If they fit that with a properly sporty black,-black,-and-more-black-with-black-trim leather interior, it'd just about be perfect. None of this white or "airy" light grey crap.
Cloth for me plz. Leather feels awful.
If they can keep it under 2400lbs and under $25K I'd consider it...
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Oct. 12, 2009 9:00 a.m. John Brown MegaDork
GameboyRMH wrote:
mad_machine wrote:
the only trouble I see... the boxer engine is NOT very suspension friendly if they want to keep it between the wheels. Even in subarus it sits pretty far forwards
I think that has more to do with the impreza's AWD layout - the half shafts for the front wheels come out just behind the bellhousing. There's no reason they can't fit the engine behind the front wheels on this, especially since the boxer is so short.
OR just behind the front wheels ;)
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Oct. 12, 2009 10:08 a.m. Brust Reader
GameboyRMH wrote:
Unfortunately, there is just no way I see it under even 2600lb- 2400 is wishful. I do think that it'll be under 25k though- the parts are all on the shelf, excepting the body. They may be able to swing low 20's, but it's going to likely weight 2800-2900 I'll wager.Jay wrote:
If they fit that with a properly sporty black,-black,-and-more-black-with-black-trim leather interior, it'd just about be perfect. None of this white or "airy" light grey crap.
Cloth for me plz. Leather feels awful.
If they can keep it under 2400lbs and under $25K I'd consider it...
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Oct. 12, 2009 10:13 a.m. MCarp22 Reader
Heck, if they can keep the NC miata around 2500, someone ought to be able to make a coupe weigh about the same.
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Oct. 12, 2009 3:14 p.m. mad_machine UberDork
GameboyRMH wrote:
There's no reason they can't fit the engine behind the front wheels on this, especially since the boxer is so short.
that is possible.. but the boxer engine is WIDE. It might work on a strut based suspension though
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Oct. 12, 2009 9:24 p.m. Woody SuperDork
I no longer care what cars look like.
I'd love a rear wheel drive coupe with a Subaru engine in front. Just keep it light and around $25k. I don't even need power windows and locks, cruise control, subwoofer or other nonsense.
Gimme airbags, A/C, Sirius and a limited slip and I'll be happy.
