Grassroots Motorsports

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Gentlemen, behold: The Toyobaru FT-86 Concept! 1 2 3 4 5

• 

  Oct. 17, 2009 10:30 a.m. skeeler New Reader

  I like this design quite a bit. The styling is quite attractive; it's interesting, without being over-styled.
  

  I'm more interested in the mechanical design however. Its size is quite compact; it's only 6.4 inches longer, 1.6 inches wider,and 0.2 inches taller than an NC Miata. The wheelbase is 10 inches longer than an NC's, which explains how they are able to fit 2 rows of seats. With the RWD, if the boxer engine is mounted mostly behind the front wheels, the weight distribution could be near-50/50. These are all good things, in my opinion.

  The only thing I don't like is the front suspension. I read in several places that the car has struts up front, rather than double wishbones. The car is apparently based on the Legacy platform and carries that car's front suspension.

• 

  Oct. 17, 2009 6:54 p.m. Brust Reader

  BMW's have strut front suspensions, and are widely considered some of the best drivers cars out there. I wouldn't pre-judge based upon that design.

  I agree that weight distribution could be great- the engine almost has to be behind the front axle in order to package the suspension in that size body

• 

  Oct. 17, 2009 11:15 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  the 911 also used (or still uses) struts for most of it's life. Set up properly, there is nothing wrong with struts

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 12:05 a.m. ae86andkp61 Reader

  I'm guessing that the struts up front is a result of a couple of factors:

  A boxer up front in a small car doesn't leave room for anything else...sure, the CG is low and they are short, but the tradeoff is that they are so wide that the front suspension design in compromised. There just isn't a way to have a short, low, powerful engine in a lightweight car with lots of room left over for optimal suspension layout.

  I gather that keeping the cost down is a priority for this model and struts are cheap to produce, and the Subaru platform already features them, so they stay in the interest of cost.

  Hey, the AE86 has struts up front and a solid axle in the rear and they can still keep up with more modern and powerful machines in the twisties! :D

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 12:09 p.m. skeeler New Reader

  In reply to Brust and Mad Machine:

  Ah, it's good to know that there are good-handling cars out there with struts up front. (I admit I don't know as much about that design as the double-wishbone, and my distrust of it may be misplaced.) So, this means I'm even more excited about this car than I was. I may be looking seriously at one of these in 2012 or 2013.

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 2:17 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  the problem with struts is that as the car rolls.. the struts roll right along with it. As the struts roll, you lose contact patch.

  You can dial it out, but then you will need negative camber or very stiff springs and anti-sway bars to keep the body roll in check.

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 2:22 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

  ^^^^Having a lot of caster helps, too. I've got 4.5 degrees up front on the 5.0.

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 2:39 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker Dork

  mad_machine wrote:

  the problem with struts is that as the car rolls.. the struts roll right along with it. As the struts roll, you lose contact patch.

  You can dial it out, but then you will need negative camber or very stiff springs and anti-sway bars to keep the body roll in check.

  The other problem(s) are: Its difficult to keep the scrub radius low since the strut angle forces the wheel to be more outboard. Not a big deal for a PS car on street tires but when you add gobs of grip and toss the power rack it gets to be a problem. You have to choose offset carefully.

  It gains almost no camber under compression so to make it stick in the turns you have to put in a lot of static camber... which hurts braking.
  

  Obviously, they can be made to be effective - as stated earlier - the 911 & every BMW 3 series (as well as most of the rest of the line) has come with them and its hard to argue that they are not good handling cars.

• 

  Oct. 18, 2009 4:04 p.m. jcanracer Reader

  no body posted the video clips yet? Subaru coupe testing on 'ring

• 

  Oct. 22, 2009 7:02 p.m. SCIONTCTUNER New Reader

  In reply to Jake: "Also, if this is to be branded "Toyota," they can't price it too low, or they will cannibalize Scion tC sales, ridiculous as that sounds. Personally, I think they should replace the polished turd that is the tC with this, price it where we want it around $20k, and build it somewhere here in the States. THAT would be cool. "

  I have to agree, much the same way V.W was and still is over priced and over weight and under powered VW's of the late 90's.The best example is that narrow angle V6. Maybe they will bring or even better build a affordable car here in the U.S.A.!

• 

  Oct. 22, 2009 7:40 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

  In reply to SCIONTCTUNER:

  You agree that the tC is a polished turd that should be replaced?

  Weren't you the one just a week ago trying to convince everyone that the tC was just super-fantastically-awesome, and that people who didn't like it were just sheep?

• 

  Oct. 26, 2009 9:33 p.m. asterisk New Reader

  Did anyone else see this: " Toyota: FT-86 Will Be ‘Best in the World’ for Drifting "

  In particular:

  A six-speed manual transmission is mounted directly behind the engine, but the motor itself is low and well aft -- further back than in existing Subarus -- so weight distribution will be helpful to the dynamics. When asked about the actual balance, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada replied: “Many people think it should be 50:50, but we did lots of tests and that isn’t the best for drifting. That’s why the gearbox is at the front not the rear. Drifting and sliding the tail is the most important thing, and this car will be the best in the world for that.”

  I wonder what this will translate to for people who aren't looking to go around every corner sideways.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 6:23 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

  asterisk wrote:

  I wonder what this will translate to for people who aren't looking to go around every corner sideways.

  High insurance premiums and a huge lawsuit resulting in floor mats being removed and a SRS/Traction Control system that will not allow the vehicle to turn a corner without alerting OnStar.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 3:14 p.m. Gearheadotaku Reader

  Happy to see someone trying to bring out a RWD coupe. Most likely will be over weight (crash standards have killed light cars), over priced (nothings cheap any more), and over complex to work on (stupid smog, economy, and nanny{ABS, Skid control, etc} laws). Fun cars are tough to find on the dealer lot anymore, if you demand RWD it's even tougher. I DO hope this hits the streets, even though I can't have one.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 3:34 p.m. oldsaw HalfDork

  jcanracer wrote:

  no body posted the video clips yet? Subaru coupe testing on 'ring

  The clip reinforces the concern about minimal negative front camber.

  Also looks like the car could use some wider rubber.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 4:31 p.m. PHeller HalfDork

  John Brown wrote:

  asterisk wrote:

  I wonder what this will translate to for people who aren't looking to go around every corner sideways.

  High insurance premiums and a huge lawsuit resulting in floor mats being removed and a SRS/Traction Control system that will not allow the vehicle to turn a corner without alerting OnStar.

  Explain...

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 4:36 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

  Toyota to get sued by the Nannies for making a vehicle that is too light in the rear, therefore too easy to spin in inclimate conditions Toyota to counter the suit by telling the customers to put the floor mats in the trunk for better weight distribution and modifying the TCS system to alloy for zero slip at any speed.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 4:38 p.m. gamby SuperDork

  asterisk wrote:

  Did anyone else see this: " Toyota: FT-86 Will Be ‘Best in the World’ for Drifting "

  In particular:

  A six-speed manual transmission is mounted directly behind the engine, but the motor itself is low and well aft -- further back than in existing Subarus -- so weight distribution will be helpful to the dynamics. When asked about the actual balance, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada replied: “Many people think it should be 50:50, but we did lots of tests and that isn’t the best for drifting. That’s why the gearbox is at the front not the rear. Drifting and sliding the tail is the most important thing, and this car will be the best in the world for that.”

  I wonder what this will translate to for people who aren't looking to go around every corner sideways.

  This is pretty epic coming out of Toyota.

  I'm assuming it'll have to come w/ some serious traction/yaw control before entering the US market.
  

  This also means it should be a killer auto-x car.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 4:41 p.m. gamby SuperDork

  John Brown wrote:

  Toyota to get sued by the Nannies for making a vehicle that is too light in the rear, therefore too easy to spin in inclimate conditions Toyota to counter the suit by telling the customers to put the floor mats in the trunk for better weight distribution and modifying the TCS system to alloy for zero slip at any speed.

  Meh--Throngs of retard stunna fanbois sent their new Integra Type R's ass-first into oblivion when they first discovered what throttle lift oversteer was (upon panicking mid-corner and lifting/braking). It resulted in a lot of totalled cars. No one sued that I recall.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 4:51 p.m. GlennS HalfDork

  I think there was some sarcasm going on gamby.

• 

  Oct. 27, 2009 5:12 p.m. gamby SuperDork

  GlennS wrote:

  I think there was some sarcasm going on gamby.

  Sorry --my sarcasm meter was broken.

  This litigious society + oversteer make enthusiasts defensive.

1 2 3 4 5  

You'll need to log in to post.

• Jump to
• Top
• Grassroots Motorsports
• Off-Topic
• Sprockets
• $200X Classifieds
• Classic Motorsports