Crazy talk: If we're imagining, here, I'm going to go ahead and rear up on my hind legs. The VR6 weighs 380lbs. That may not be true, but it is made true by repeated google results of what board posters think. (+1 new result) Mount it as far back as you can without cutting into the foot wells. Cannibalize a 924 or a 944's flywheel clutch, torque tube, transaxle . . . pancreas. Everything down the line from the crank to the hubs. http://www.924.id.lv/Heynes%20Manual%20924/07_Transm01_files/image002.gif . VR6's into Porsches are already being done, 931's, 951's, (.38, .39 Whatever it takes) http://www.hybrid9s.com/showthread.php?t=48 , but you need this adapter plate. http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_85&products_id=665 Narrow the center section of a Miata rear suspension dropout 2 inches http://www.quadesl.com/miata_photos/rear_diagram.gif The fattest part of the transaxle will likely have to be flush to the front crossmember for the axles to line up. I haven't actually measured, so the front cross member may have to be replaced with a tubular steel section, probably 2 paired tubes, with the necessary bow to clear the hump and let it all line up. Speaking of tubular steel; yeah, a lot of the rear of the frame will have to be chopped off and replaced (new bit, up and over the subframe) which is a PiTA, but hey, you're getting rid of that rotoflex and getting a rear suspension with more degrees of freedom than the contortionist girlfriend you used to think you wanted under a skin with as many curves. Sure it's probably not any better thought out but it doesn't mean it's any less fun to think about.
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May 27, 2010 10:54 p.m. budbarker New Reader
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May 27, 2010 11:41 p.m. triumph5 New Reader
I don/t know if it's been mentioned, but either this publication, or its sister, Classic Motorsports, did build a 300hp+ Spitfire, Soup to nuts...Engine mounts to coil-over rear suspension..
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May 27, 2010 11:42 p.m. triumph5 New Reader
SORRY, it;s late, a ROTARY powered Spit
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May 28, 2010 12:22 a.m. budbarker New Reader
In reply to triumph5: I couldn't find a 300hp rotary spit. Do you have a link to the build up?
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May 28, 2010 12:27 a.m. triumph5 New Reader
In reply to budbarker: I saw itadvertised in a list of back issues available..It was maybe 3-4 years ago. I'll look and get back to you. Might be in the 25 years of project cars issue,
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May 28, 2010 12:29 a.m. triumph5 New Reader
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May 28, 2010 5:56 a.m. ScottRA21 New Reader
You want a cheap, light weight, short, small, compact engine that will produce 200 hp or around there, with fuel-injection, and will be reliable until the cows come home?
Suzuki H27A out of a Grand Vitara. 2.7L V6, All-Aluminum, 180 hp, 180 ft-lbs of torque. Longitudinal, and can be had with a 5 speed manual trans, in 2wd config.
I asked a guy down in Aus who was planning to shove one into a Starlet what the dimensions were:
"I measured it yesterday and got this - 540mm long (includes water fitting at the rear and pulleys & stuff at the friont) 530mm wide, not including the exhaust manifolds. 610mm tall with everything. 460mm from the bottom of the block to the top of the cam covers."
For quick Metric to Imperial Translation: Length: 21.26 inches Width: 20.87 Inches Height: 24.01 inches / 18.11 Inches
Now, weight. I shot off an Email to Titan Aircraft down in Aus (again) who are using the same V6 in their P-51 Mustang scale-replicas about the weight of the engine:
"The dry weight of the engine with the conversion kit ready to install is 315 lbs. Our firewall installation, prop and everything is around 400 lbs. The barebones without the conversion kit is between 260 - 270 lbs. "
It does have the negative quirk of munching the chain guides however, but other than that, I haven't heard of any other issues with the design. Also, due to the nature of the engine, it is in low demand, and as such, should be cheap to pick up from a scrap yard. The converse negative side of this is, I have only heard of 3 modified versions of this engine: 1: Used in Monster Tajima's Pike's Peak Escudo. 2: Used in some dude's Grand Vitara that he turboed to around 400+ hp, but I never saw any dyno sheets. 3: Monster Tajima's Pikes Peak SX4, twin turboed to over 800 hp.
But I know of no aftermarket for the engine. Period. Which sucks.
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May 28, 2010 7:31 a.m. Ian F Dork
irish44j wrote:
I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.
I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6?
Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...
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May 28, 2010 11:08 a.m. carzan Reader
Ian F wrote:
irish44j wrote:
I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.
I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6?
Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...
If this is the one I'm thinking of (Mr. Tegler's car), it was at Carlisle last week. It's quite a piece of work and a lot of the build is documented on his website.
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May 28, 2010 11:10 a.m. budbarker New Reader
In reply to triumph5:Interesting Spitfire. The more I ready about the rotaries the more I like them
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May 28, 2010 12:37 p.m. Ian F Dork
carzan wrote: If this is the one I'm thinking of (Mr. Tegler's car), it was at Carlisle last week. It's quite a piece of work and a lot of the build is documented on his website.
Yep. The other one is out in Ohio.
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May 28, 2010 2:14 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork
Rotaries work REAL nice in Spits.
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May 28, 2010 2:59 p.m. HappyJack New Reader
A friend of mine is putting a Dodge 2.2 Turbo motor in a GT6. Using a 4cylinder Dakota bell housing, Toyota Supra 5 speed tranny, and a Miata LSD diff. Plus I think the turbo is off a Thunderbird.
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May 28, 2010 3:03 p.m. John Brown SuperDork
budbarker wrote:
Crazy talk: If we're imagining, here, I'm going to go ahead and rear up on my hind legs. The VR6 weighs 380lbs. That may not be true, but it is made true by repeated google results of what board posters think. (+1 new result) Mount it as far back as you can without cutting into the foot wells. Cannibalize a 924 or a 944's flywheel clutch, torque tube, transaxle . . . pancreas. Everything down the line from the crank to the hubs. http://www.924.id.lv/Heynes%20Manual%20924/07_Transm01_files/image002.gif . VR6's into Porsches are already being done, 931's, 951's, (.38, .39 Whatever it takes) http://www.hybrid9s.com/showthread.php?t=48 , but you need this adapter plate. http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_85&products_id=665 Narrow the center section of a Miata rear suspension dropout 2 inches http://www.quadesl.com/miata_photos/rear_diagram.gif The fattest part of the transaxle will likely have to be flush to the front crossmember for the axles to line up. I haven't actually measured, so the front cross member may have to be replaced with a tubular steel section, probably 2 paired tubes, with the necessary bow to clear the hump and let it all line up. Speaking of tubular steel; yeah, a lot of the rear of the frame will have to be chopped off and replaced (new bit, up and over the subframe) which is a PiTA, but hey, you're getting rid of that rotoflex and getting a rear suspension with more degrees of freedom than the contortionist girlfriend you used to think you wanted under a skin with as many curves. Sure it's probably not any better thought out but it doesn't mean it's any less fun to think about.
I like Bud.
Can we be frendz?
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May 28, 2010 3:46 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork
HappyJack wrote:
A friend of mine is putting a Dodge 2.2 Turbo motor in a GT6. Using a 4cylinder Dakota bell housing, Toyota Supra 5 speed tranny, and a Miata LSD diff. Plus I think the turbo is off a Thunderbird.
By chance is that mr_niteowl from up Canada way? He came to the Challenge a few times with a Rampage pickup and was going to try the same thing you are talking about. He and Lesley run with the same gang up there.
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May 28, 2010 4:08 p.m. HappyJack New Reader
In reply to Jensenman:
yep, thats him. I guess I'm part of the same gang. Unfortunately for his project though, it has seemed to have grinded to an almost halt.
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May 28, 2010 5:13 p.m. irish44j HalfDork
Ian F wrote:
irish44j wrote:
I've always thought the real solution is what a few people have done....move the stock engine back 4-6" for better balance, build it to a reliable 150hp, and bring the car's weight down in the 1600-1700lb range (FG bonnet, coil spring rear suspension, stripped interior, fiberglass wings, etc). Thus giving a p/w ratio roughly on par with an STi or Evo.
I'm assuming you are familiar with FIS6?
Another NASS member is also building a Spit 6 with a relocated I6. However, he's using a TR6 2.5 engine mated to a Toyota 5 spd. He's doing a FIS6-style relocation as well, but going one further by flipping the shock towers and mounting the engine to the back. Needless to say, the frame needed some serious messaging...
Definitely familiar with everything Paul T. has done with his various cars :) I've borrowed a few of his ideas already for my GT6+ weekender...all with smashing success.
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Oct. 27, 2010 10:33 p.m. BlackKnight
Hi, I am new here .I am in the finishing stages of a 3SGE Beams (Black Top)into a 1978 Spit. We started it today and tuned it.It sounds crazy as hell. 210 H.P from a car that does not weigh 1500pounds.....I'm gonna need brakes.
