The Goodwood Revival 2011 is just now coming on Speed. 1200 et
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Dec. 11, 2011 11:04 a.m. Graefin10 HalfDork
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Dec. 11, 2011 11:12 a.m. Woody SuperDork
I love the fact that Goodwood isn't just a parade of delicately restored old cars. They actually race hard.
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Dec. 11, 2011 11:29 a.m. egoman New Reader
watching it right now
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Dec. 11, 2011 12:13 p.m. LopRacer Reader
Just finished watching and drooling over some of the vintage iron they were racing.
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Dec. 11, 2011 1:56 p.m. mguar New Reader
I don't know where you get the idea that Vintage racers parade? I've never been to a single race where it's only a parade.. in 30+ years of vintage racing.. I'm flat out whenever I race.. Yes some guys race less than flat out and that's OK. We'll try to be careful when we pass them but we're only barely in control of our cars as we hurl ourselves around the track. If it doesn't look fast get a similar car and come out and try to beat them.. Granted we are not supposed to touch another car hence the word control.. 2 tires off and the tower will shake a black flag at you.. 4 tires off or a spin and you need to come in because you do not have control.. Can it be a parade? Well yes because in one class there might not be 2 cars with similar performance/drivers skill but my stone stock MGTD with all 54 horsepower is going as fast as it will go. I need a second car with the same stock nature and a similarly skilled driver to make a race of it otherwise I'm wherever I am in the field.. While My "D" type Jag slides around a lot more it's because the engine is more powerful but the tires are just as narrow..
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Dec. 11, 2011 2:55 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork
mguar wrote: I don't know where you get the idea that Vintage racers parade?
But he said,
I love the fact that Goodwood isn't just a parade of delicately restored old cars. They actually race hard.
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Dec. 11, 2011 3:09 p.m. carguy123 SuperDork
Apparently it doesn't come back on anytime soon as a search didn't turn it up again. Could it have been on a different titled show?
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Dec. 11, 2011 5:41 p.m. aeronca65t Dork
Every time I look at this video, it motivates me to go out to the garage and work on my racing A35.
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Dec. 12, 2011 7:37 a.m. gjz30075 Reader
I remember going to the first vintage races at Road America and yes, they were parades. This was probably the very early 80s. Didn't last long however, as I remember the following years were races.
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Dec. 12, 2011 8:41 a.m. spitfirebill SuperDork
In the CanAm race, two McLarens were banging on each other.
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Dec. 13, 2011 12:41 a.m. mguar New Reader
In reply to gjz30075:
Well I was At Elkart Lake from the very beginning..Joe Marchetti ran the first few events. (mainly as a chance to show off his beloved Ferrari's) I ran the first event (about 1976) in the DeMar and on the main straight at about 165MPH the front hood caught air and blew off going more than 65 feet in the air.. (I browned my undies) Demar was a tube frame Chevy powered Devin bodied car with a Lotus 23 type suspension. Parades? Clearly you couldn't have been in a car. But even when I was driving my 54Horsepower MGTD in Group 1 they weren't parades. I spent every lap setting my buddy up for a pass in the final corner and he couldn't get back around me before the Finish line.. He had the faster, newer, MGTF with the XPEG motor and 8 more horsepower (+ better aerodynamics). I came in after that race with my suit soaking wet with sweat and my arms near numb with exhaustion. But a big silly ear to ear grin plastered on my face.. Go ahead try concentrating that hard only inches away from your buddies rear bumper drafting him to keep up.. OK my top speed was only 77 MPH but please realize what we had. The body designed first appeared in the 1920's, suspension on those cars dated from the 1930's ,and the engine was basically a pre-war design.
The next year I raced both the Black Jack and the MGTD at Elkart lake. In fact I made every race until 1992 -
Dec. 13, 2011 8:19 a.m. gjz30075 Reader
Well, I certainly didn't say you weren't going fast
and I apologize for the parade comment. From a spectator perspective, it seemed 'reserved', compared to what always ran there, ie, June Sprints, IMSA, SCCA Nationals, etc, and what spectators are used to. All the cars, regardless of age, were prepared to the 9s for the day, not the period they were from, which is the key difference, from a spectator perspective.
I know you raced hard but I remember thinking, wow, this is really different and really cool!
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Dec. 13, 2011 10:19 a.m. mguar New Reader
A lot of the cars may seem slow but are driven to the very limit .. A 1927 Bugatti worth a million or more will push his car to the redline and drive to the absolute limit of traction.. Yet he'll be passed by faster cars in the class as if standing still. There's a little 1930's MG J3 with only 850cc. and he's extremely hard pressed to keep up to Newer cars in class 1. He's a brilliant driver and flogs that little car like he stole it.. But no, relative to bigger more powerful cars he can't pass them. . I suspect also the no contact rule that is enforced gives the impression of a parade.. It's very strictly enforced since some of these cars are worth millions.. The basic rule is stay in control of your car.. clearly if you touch another car you aren't in control. Accordingly with contact comes a 13 month suspension.. That is if you come in contact with another car in 13 months you will be banned for 13 months.. That means if you contact two cars at the same event you cannot race for 13 months (effectively 2 years)
They are pretty diligent about who' at fault etc.. If you cause contact in the morning that's your suspension and if any time during the next 13 months you come into contact with another (say that afternoon) you won't be racing for two years at that event. (and 1 year at most other events put on by that club).. Sir Stirling Moss got just such a penalty so they don't play favorites or enforce lightly.. Rules like No contact are needed.. Not just because these are mega valuable cars, but also 1927 safety usually involved a cloth cap and firm grip on the steering wheel. That multimillion dollar Dusenburg special doesn't have a rollcage or most of the things modern racers take for granted.. the steering shaft is aimed straight at the drivers heart and the wooden steering wheel can shatter as it is driven through the drivers chest upon front impact.. Fuel Cell in a priceless Ferrari Testa Rossa? Don't forget that race cars back in those days killed good/ great race drivers every weekend.. Some had really treacherous handling. Like the old Allard with it's front swing axle? and 350 horsepower OLDS J3 engine. On spindly wire wheels? Try driving that around the carousel at Elkart Lake.. I assure you you will brown your shorts!! -
Dec. 13, 2011 10:27 a.m. spitfirebill SuperDork
If you ever want to see drivers really pushing a vintage tin, watch a group of Riley ERAs.
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Dec. 13, 2011 10:28 a.m. mguar New Reader
spitfirebill wrote:
In the CanAm race, two McLarens were banging on each other.
At Goodwood they have a different standard of safety.. they accept contact in a given event (but typically note it in the drivers log book) These cars are carefully selected because of their provenance and the owners ability to repair minor body work as a result of contact.. That really is an exclusive club when you're invited. You don't simply show up with a car.. You have to demonstrate the ability to field a car in a manor befitting the upper crust.. I suspect a entrant will spend anywhere up to 1/2 million dollars to prepare the car for the event, hire a professional driver, crew, transport. lodging, etc. the car..
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Dec. 13, 2011 10:39 a.m. emodspitfire Reader
Folks,
It seems like every Vintage racing group has their own take on "Raciness".
At Elkhart (been multiple times) and Monterey pretty much every class had the top 3 to 5 guys FIGHTING for the next position. (But cleanly).
When I questioned a coworker and Rocky Mountain VR about the parades that they conducted, his comments: "Grid position determines finishing position unless a competitor waves you by. And "THE CARS ARE THE STARS". Never bothered to attend another of their events....
Rog
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Dec. 13, 2011 12:23 p.m. aeronca65t Dork
Yeah, I agree that different groups in vintage may have different degrees of "Raciness" (there's a new word!). And in my view, some of pre-war cars look like they're dogging it when, in reality, they they're balls-to-the-wall. You can only do so much with 50 HP and skinny, 19" wire wheels.
My ~ 75 HP Spridget sure can't do any great smokey burnouts either....it's all about momentum. Which can look "slow" to the uninitiated, no matter how hard you're trying. Believe me, when I'm in a dense pack of very similar Spridgets (+Spits, Minis, etc) heading down the main straight at something like 96 mph, we are all trying our @ss off to get to T1 first.
When I'm racing with some of my Spridget peers in VRG, no one gives me a pass and I don't exactly hand them out either. There's no pre-ordained finishing order. We all race hard but clean.
Here's a sample Watch the blue Sprite around 1:50.....I'm at about 6K in fourth and trying for sure. (trying not to hit him).
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Dec. 13, 2011 1:18 p.m. Basil Exposition Reader
emodspitfire wrote:
When I questioned a coworker and Rocky Mountain VR about the parades that they conducted, his comments: "Grid position determines finishing position unless a competitor waves you by. And "THE CARS ARE THE STARS".
I don't think your coworker is correct. I've had some hard racing with a few guys from RMVR (though not in Colorado) and that's not my understanding of what they do.
I've raced in vintage with a Spridget for about ten years in several venues with a number of different clubs (and been in a couple of wrecks). I've yet to feel like I've been in a parade. Most of my races look like the video that aeronca65t posted, though I HATE when they put forumla cars (usually FV's) in with the production cars.
I've got several of the Goodwood Revival DVD's and was lucky enough to attend a few years ago. Some of the most exciting races I've ever watched.
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Dec. 13, 2011 11:47 p.m. mguar New Reader
In reply to Basil Exposition:
Yes! I agree!!!!! Open wheel cars with production cars is an extremely scary proposition.(safety wise). Totally different mindset with those 2 groups.. Formula cars could be invisible to a production car driver. Not to mention relative cornering speeds and the fact that Formula cars don't use brake lights etc..
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Dec. 13, 2011 11:50 p.m. mguar New Reader
In reply to mguar:
Every vintage racer believes that the cars are the stars.. We're just custodians. That has never stopped any of us from passing whenever and wherever we can. While we do dive into holes to steal a position, we do ensure that we''re seen and those we're racing with are capable of driving at these levels.
