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moparman76_69
moparman76_69 SuperDork
11/6/14 9:40 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

While that is true, it sort of bends what I consider a protest rule. Does the car submitting the protest also get a tear down? To me protesting another driver is saying "you're so much faster, I think its more than driving skill". Not "I know you're cheating because we all are, so I'll protest so I can finish better".

Sorta like the Lance Armstrong debacle.

captdownshift
captdownshift Dork
11/6/14 10:04 a.m.

I for one look forward to picking up a well sorted NC or NA from the MX-5 Cup for pennies on the dollar to take racing at AER events

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
11/6/14 10:15 a.m.
moxnix wrote: Depends on who you ask. This is a good post that shows the liberal interpretation of the rules side with their appeal. http://mazdaracers.com/topic/4768-everything-runoffs-2014/page-17#entry66855

IMHO, this sentence right here is a problem:

I also had two new heads next day aired Friday in case we saw something “wrong” in any of the heads, we could change on Monday.

If you're doing that, then you belong in a "Pro" class, which I am pretty damn sure Spec Miata was never meant to be. Besides the fact he has spare heads built up and ready to bolt on, I can't imagine what the overnight shipping costs were to do that.

T.J.
T.J. PowerDork
11/6/14 10:25 a.m.
icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs HalfDork
11/6/14 11:23 a.m.
Ian F wrote:
moxnix wrote: Depends on who you ask. This is a good post that shows the liberal interpretation of the rules side with their appeal. http://mazdaracers.com/topic/4768-everything-runoffs-2014/page-17#entry66855

IMHO, this sentence right here is a problem:

I also had two new heads next day aired Friday in case we saw something “wrong” in any of the heads, we could change on Monday.

If you're doing that, then you belong in a "Pro" class, which I am pretty damn sure Spec Miata was never meant to be. Besides the fact he has spare heads built up and ready to bolt on, I can't imagine what the overnight shipping costs were to do that.

That guy is the engine builder, not a racer

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
11/6/14 11:27 a.m.
icaneat50eggs wrote:
Ian F wrote:
moxnix wrote: Depends on who you ask. This is a good post that shows the liberal interpretation of the rules side with their appeal. http://mazdaracers.com/topic/4768-everything-runoffs-2014/page-17#entry66855

IMHO, this sentence right here is a problem:

I also had two new heads next day aired Friday in case we saw something “wrong” in any of the heads, we could change on Monday.

If you're doing that, then you belong in a "Pro" class, which I am pretty damn sure Spec Miata was never meant to be. Besides the fact he has spare heads built up and ready to bolt on, I can't imagine what the overnight shipping costs were to do that.

That guy is the engine builder, not a racer

Jim Drago is both an engine builder and a racer.

nderwater
nderwater PowerDork
11/6/14 12:02 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Interesting, I just found out that 2015 is the last year for MX-5 Cup. As soon as the car goes out of production, the source for sealed new engines is gone. Can't really blame Mazda, they want their headline series to be the current car. And the new one is a looker.

Here's to hoping the market is suddenly flooded with obsolete NC MX-5 Cup cars. I would sure love a cheap turnkey track car.

codrus
codrus Dork
11/6/14 12:12 p.m.
JohnyHachi6 wrote: Yeah, I was just going to say this. Somewhere, a spec miata shop is hoarding shelves of miata heads and will be selling you that one-in-a-thousand head that got a slightly better casting, or slightly more on-center valve seats, etc, probably for twice the cost of the trick machined heads.

Yeah, reading the rules that were stretched/bent/whatever, it appears that they were originally put into the series to try to eliminate some of the "buy a thousand and test them all" by letting you modify a stock head a limited amount to compensate for certain manufacturing deviations.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UberDork
11/6/14 12:15 p.m.

Ideally a spec series should be about setup and driving it seems. Bolt on the specified parts, put in gas, go racing. My perception is that Spec Miata has deviated from this at the pointy end with super special pro built engines and other shenanigans necessary. Combine that with the fact that people seem to think that cheap bodywork means that smooshing each other is fine, and it's not terribly attractive anymore.
It's still cheap to buy a mid pack car and go play, but if you're just going to go circulate with your friends, it seems like LeMons or Chump or WRL accomplishes the same thing. it with more fun.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
11/6/14 12:27 p.m.

is an IROC style race (where you hop into a car) a better bet maybe?

I am very intrigued by this, but I have no skin in the game.

ScreaminE
ScreaminE HalfDork
11/6/14 12:50 p.m.

I don't see how anyone affords to race Spec Miata. I do pretty well for myself but can't believe how much it costs to show up to the track.

dean1484
dean1484 UltimaDork
11/6/14 12:57 p.m.

What is the prize $$$$ for winning a spec Miata race anyway?

CGLockRacer
CGLockRacer Dork
11/6/14 1:19 p.m.

In reply to dean1484:

The biggest prize for winning runoffs is going to the MazdaSpeed Shootout for a chance at winning a "full" ride in the MX-5 Cup series. I typed "Full" because you get most everything covered, but still need a boat load of cash to pay for travel, food, broken stuff, etc. They cover entry fees, tires (1 set per weekend), and just enough to rent a car from a team for a season.

As for current SM cost, I can't find the post from earlier, but it now costs $50K+ for a National Championship contender. Basically buy a rust free donor, throw everything but the tub away, and build with NEW parts that are optimized, matched, blue printed but tech shed legal, etc. It is insane how much it costs now. I thought about getting back into it, but there is no way I can afford that.

motomoron
motomoron SuperDork
11/6/14 1:49 p.m.

An associate who runs at the front in SM regionally says "a decent head is cheap but it costs 3 grand to make it look legal".

captdownshift
captdownshift Dork
11/6/14 2:07 p.m.

In reply to motomoron:

Not the first time I've heard that, after my second head was deemed illegal I even considered going big, but then I remembered that I was doing it for fun.

Rupert
Rupert HalfDork
11/6/14 2:50 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Keith,

If they do the head thing, the cheaters will just do something else. I agree 100% with the power cap! However I wonder how expensive it might be to police? Pull dyno at each event?

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy SuperDork
11/6/14 2:58 p.m.

hmmmmmm thinking outside the box... a spec engine builder... who brings the engines to each event... and the engines get distributed on opening morning, and collected after the final race... to be redistributed at each race... no one knows what engine they get, or even if they'll get that one again...

KyAllroad
KyAllroad HalfDork
11/6/14 3:07 p.m.

I like Ruperts idea better. Simply declare that the car can't put down more than 120 to the wheels or rev beyond 7,200 rpm. (or something close to that) My NA does 117ish to the wheels with exhaust and intake for very cheap.

Rupert
Rupert HalfDork
11/6/14 3:14 p.m.

Kieth just told us they are starting over with the ND racers. Assuming no one has spent big money yet I think the old claiming rule would apply beautifully. If you build a car and someone also racing in your class thinks it's too fast, they can claim it for a set amount of cash.

Since you know your car might be claimed for X-dollars, you likely won't take the risk of spending excess dollars to make the claiming competitor faster in the cheater you built. And if rule is put in place in the original racers specs, you can't claim you didn't know it might be claimed.

When I was racing AMA motorcycles there were set claim prices per class. Everyone knew the claiming price & most didn't exceed it. And if they did, someone else could end up with a sweet ride on the cheater's buck.

CGLockRacer
CGLockRacer Dork
11/6/14 4:43 p.m.

In reply to Rupert:

I just thought of an alternative to the claiming rule that might work better since less or no cash would be involved and might actually get used. Car swapping rule. Keep your safety gear, swap cars, install it in your "new" car. Both competitors still have a car to race. Kind of a modified Skip Barber series. There you drew numbers for cars before each weekend. Here you take the car home with you though. This would also prove if the driver or car was fast. If driver doing the claiming was still slow, it's him. If he is suddenly winning after running in last place all season, something is up (and someone else, or the series, can claim the car).

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
11/6/14 4:48 p.m.
KyAllroad wrote: I like Ruperts idea better. Simply declare that the car can't put down more than 120 to the wheels or rev beyond 7,200 rpm. (or something close to that) My NA does 117ish to the wheels with exhaust and intake for very cheap.

Problem: NASA East dyno debacle. Your NA would have made about 140whp on that dyno.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs HalfDork
11/6/14 5:44 p.m.

That's why I asked how long it takes to put an engine in.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
11/6/14 6:02 p.m.

This is pretty timely and hilarious.

http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/4727546828.html

Spec Miata Race Car for sale - $9250999 (Hollywood)

Freshly built SPEC MIATA race car with all the bells and whistles. Yet to be on track. This car won the nationals in 2014 in the ITA category. Driven by pro driver Zupa Ceyin qril-in in the 2014 24 hours of le mans. Features: -30 spare tires/rims -roll cage bent by my hands and welded with my spit -engine built by NASA space center making over 951.2bhp @2k rpm and 120 ft-lbs @-800 rpm -325 hoosiers all around -895k miles (it went around the sun a few times) -Oh and it flies -Blessed by the Vatican -clean title -comes with free muffin button -paint has a minor scratch on the rear left quarter This car is so amazing I wont even sell it. I just posted it to brag about how amazing it is. It is so amazing you probably cant afford it. Broke the Audi E-tron Quattro's lap by 30 seconds at daytona. dont contact me unless you are a soopa srs baier. asking 9 thousand million dollars. Buy it now and Ill throw in a free tuna sandwich.

MrChaos
MrChaos Reader
11/6/14 6:05 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
KyAllroad wrote: I like Ruperts idea better. Simply declare that the car can't put down more than 120 to the wheels or rev beyond 7,200 rpm. (or something close to that) My NA does 117ish to the wheels with exhaust and intake for very cheap.

Problem: NASA East dyno debacle. Your NA would have made about 140whp on that dyno.

Backstory?

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
11/6/14 6:10 p.m.
MrChaos wrote:
Swank Force One wrote:
KyAllroad wrote: I like Ruperts idea better. Simply declare that the car can't put down more than 120 to the wheels or rev beyond 7,200 rpm. (or something close to that) My NA does 117ish to the wheels with exhaust and intake for very cheap.

Problem: NASA East dyno debacle. Your NA would have made about 140whp on that dyno.

Backstory?

Power limits in classes. Dyno shows up, operator doesn't know what they're doing, tons of people get DQ'd because they make too much power.

And by "Too much power" i mean "dyno records for everyone!"

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