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warrenv
warrenv New Reader
12/3/12 12:03 a.m.

The MP-62 is basically a mirror of the intake plenum, packaging-wise. The Exocet hood is symmetric, but slightly lower than the Miata hood. As long as your intake plumbing isn't crazy, there should be no issue. I haven't seen pictures, but I've seen posts of guys in the UK running the MP-62 and MP-45 in their Exocets with no problems worth mentioning to the internet.

The VVT actuator on the 2001+ BP-Z3 will bump into the hood on the UK chassis. Most builders have used older donors, but the few VVT Exocets out there have small clearance holes for the little bit that's taller than the oil fill cap. I think I may have solved that with the new one, as there will be 0.5 to .75" more clearance under the hood on the new chassis, as that main arc tube is slightly higher.

The driver model is me. Here are some dimensions:

(Click for a bigger version)

It's an old model, but it's quite accurate to my joints. If you go to GrabCAD.com or search around the FSAE forums, there are tons of free 3D posable human models that are much better than mine. I just created mine because it was more helpful when designing an FSAE seat mold years ago.

And this is how my chassis assembly model looks now. Thanks for that.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe Dork
12/3/12 12:29 a.m.

So a couple questions.

MSO cert comes with the car. Has anybody done a SB100 register on one.

Do you do a reduced spec car, I would be interested in getting one sans body and lighting to do my own

Time from order to delivery on the new style frame.

Total time to build in approx hours for someone who has built a number of kit cars.

warrenv
warrenv New Reader
12/3/12 1:00 a.m.

In reply to wearymicrobe:

Unfortunately, I don't know detailed stuff about registration other than "hey, look over here at the SAN site". Email Kevin at info@Exomotive.com . He'll be able to help you there.

I'm not sure we can sell a bodyless version. That's another Kevin question. If you're no stranger to a little bit of fabrication, we have a few UK kits on hand that we are willing to sell naked. Most of the improvements on this kit could be easily incorporated to the UK one, and I can give you some detailed pictures of what tubes to add.

Timeline? I can't make any promises, it's all up to our laser cutter. The owner and engineers have taken a liking to our project, but it's a complex project to get right. Every intersection you see requires substantial thought and toolpath programming. Once we get the first one sorted out (hopefully in the next month), the delivery time for a production chassis should be 3-5 weeks after deposit, depending on how many orders we have in the pipeline.

The number that keeps coming up with the UK Exocet is 100 hours. Expect about 30 to dismantle the donor, 20 to prep the tube chassis, 20 to hook everything up mechanically, and another 30 for hooking everything up and troubleshooting. That's for someone that has never built a kit car, but knows to use a 6-point socket instead of those locking pliers. An experienced kit car builder? Around half that. I think Grant Wilson claimed about 60 hours to get his 302 Exocet on the road, and that required a whole new custom firewall, as the UK Exocet's was a bit too tight for the T5.

warrenv
warrenv New Reader
12/3/12 2:26 a.m.

This is fun. I happened to find a 3D point cloud scan of an NA Miata on the Miata.net forums and loaded it up into the assembly. Keep in mind that the bodywork models for the Exocet exist only to check clearances and fitment, they are not exact of the curves on the Exocet (the hood model is mainly single curvature taken from the lowest transverse point, which makes it useful but ugly).

That's a pretty close comparison based on the same subframe positions. Note the Exocet floor is much lower than the Miata's.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH PowerDork
12/3/12 7:19 a.m.
warrenv wrote: Even then, a cammed LS1 will easily put down 400. At 1650#, you're at 4.1 lbs/bhp. You know what has a worse power/weight ratio? Veyron. Huayra. Noble M600. Enzo. Aventado. 430 gets you past a McLaren F1. Those are very achievable numbers for the stupid levels of possible go-fast.

Wow

An LS1 Exocet with wings might be the best dollars-for-speed deal on four wheels.

Exomotive
Exomotive
12/3/12 7:39 a.m.

Hi All - I'm Kevin from Exomotive.

wearymicrobe wrote: MSO cert comes with the car. Has anybody done a SB100 register on one.

We have a customer in California working on his Exocet now. He has expressed confidence in being able to register it for the street.

wearymicrobe wrote: Total time to build in approx hours for someone who has built a number of kit cars.

This varies depending on skill, experience and how far you take the build. I would imagine that most racers who are already intimately familiar with the Miata could take as few as 40 hours on the low end. Less experienced builders may take up to 150-200 hours, especially if they plan to completely disassemble the donor parts for media blasting/powder coating/new bushings to perfectly match their frame color.

nderwater
nderwater UberDork
12/3/12 10:10 a.m.

I'm still not sure how much room I have in my life for a car that can only be driven on sunny weekends, but this looks more doable and more affordable than my Cobra dreams.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
12/3/12 10:17 a.m.

I'm now trying to decide between this and Focus based build. Still would be 1-2 years away.

Obviously this makes sense because of all the work I've done to the Miata and most of it transfers to this.

But I like the Focus based build since it's mid-engine.

Jaynen
Jaynen HalfDork
12/3/12 10:27 a.m.

I lean towards this because the low cost of consumables on miata's is already proven

dculberson
dculberson SuperDork
12/3/12 10:39 a.m.

Awesome update, I think the new roll bar looks way better than the old one.

I also love the "oodles."

Jaynen
Jaynen HalfDork
12/3/12 12:11 p.m.

Random thoughts because of the discussion of monster power in these cars. How big of a tire can you run with the fenders that come with it? How big of a tire could you run before the components would start struggling with it?

fidelity101
fidelity101 Reader
12/3/12 12:19 p.m.

Finally, I have somewhere to put my oodles!

Warren van Nus
Warren van Nus New Reader
12/3/12 2:10 p.m.

In reply to Jaynen:

The stock fenders are good to a 205 section width tire. Anything more than that will rub on the sides. I haven't seen this yet, but you could trim the inside of the fenders and let the extra rubber hang out on the inside of the fenders.

(Please excuse the Larry Craig stance)

For a reminder of the existing bodywork, here's Kevin's UK-spec LHD car in meat-space (real life):

For my personal taste, I don't think I would even want fenders, as the aero benefit is negligable at best and the unsprung mass is increased a bit by the mounts (the actual fenders weigh around 1.5-1.75 lbs). You should always drive the Exocet as an open wheel car, fenders or not.

Decreasing the offset (moving the tires out) by 40mm or so has a cool effect in these cars. The scrub radius increases a bit, which gives you a lot more steering feedback and makes the experience a bit more special. Even a power rack conversion to manual feels quite light with ~450 lbs less off the front wheels, so that extra scrub radius brings it back to the "right weight". Downsides: braking can theoretically be a bit dartier in bumpy areas, you lose a bit of motion ratio, and in theory, a minimal scrub radius is faster. I still prefer the offset/spacers.

In reply to Jaynen:

We're looking forward to seeing what the community will do with their newfound oodles. Radial piston power? Electric conversions? Jaguar V12s? Two rotaries joined at the crank? Turbo LSx? The extra chassis stiffness will easily take 600 ft-lbs of torque, it's just a matter of who's got the guts. 500hp gets you past the fastest sportbike power-to-weight ratios.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UberDork
12/3/12 2:29 p.m.

Many states require some kind of fender for road use.

The easy solution would be to just section them (cut them in half in the middle) and add material.

Am I weird for being more attracted to one without bodywork?

Personally.. I am dreaming a stone-simple carbed LS-whatever... The biggest hurdle to me is finding a trans to live with it that is cheap (T-56es are surprisingly a-spensive)

Are there (preexisting) provisions/designs for a windscreen and wipers? I know that many states require one for road cars.

Another off question.. Can a Miata ABS system work in one of these (has it been done?) I wonder if additionally it could still be made to function with a carbed motor swap. If the ABS can work it could be a REALLY great track platform. (hey, flatspots SUCK)

tuna55
tuna55 UberDork
12/3/12 2:32 p.m.

Thanks for putting this here - it makes me, for one, reconsider how 'real' this car/company is since I have not seen too many completed. I am excited, but seeing as I currently rock a minivan and am tentatively shopping for another 6 passenger vehicle, it may be a while.

tuna55
tuna55 UberDork
12/3/12 2:33 p.m.
Apexcarver wrote: Am I weird for being more attracted to one without bodywork?

Me too!

Apexcarver wrote: Personally.. I am dreaming a stone-simple carbed LS-whatever... The biggest hurdle to me is finding a trans to live with it that is cheap (T-56es are surprisingly a-spensive)

me too!

Apexcarver wrote: Another off question.. Can a Miata ABS system work in one of these (has it been done?) I wonder if additionally it could still be made to function with a carbed motor swap. If the ABS can work it could be a REALLY great track platform. (hey, flatspots SUCK)

WOW, that's a good idea.

ultraclyde
ultraclyde Dork
12/3/12 2:45 p.m.

So, Warren, next time I'm in Atlanta, do you guys give test drives?

A kit car has always been on my bucket list - a seven, maybe an FFR Cobra or type 65,....but this looks like a LOT of fun, and maybe an investment I could get to in the next couple years instead of next decade.

And I only work 6 miles from my house, so..... would it be odd to use a full face helmet in your DD?

Warren van Nus
Warren van Nus New Reader
12/3/12 2:56 p.m.

In reply to tuna55:

You're not the only one who likes the naked look. This is my favorite Exocet so far (click for video):

Apexcarver: The LSx series was never offered with a carb. It might be more difficult to convert it than to run a stock ECU from a donor car. Just find a wrecked F-Body or Goat. Believe it or not, there are bellhousings that allow you to use a T5 with an LSx.

There is nothing stopping you from running the Miata ABS system, although it might kick in a bit earlier in the rear due to the weight transfer differences. You will definitely increase your stopping distances on the track, and worse, they'll be less predictable. The NB ABS is terrible with this, as it cuts too aggressively and tries too hard to keep the steering wheel straight. If you hit some dirt on one of your front tires, your brakes will simply not work for a good 20 ft. It's scary enough that I pull my ABS fuse when it's rainy with leaves on the ground. A good bias adjuster (Tilton makes one for $50) will help with front lockups, just remember to tune it whenever your grip levels change. A wet bias setup might lock up the rears on a dry track, and that can get scary. I highly recommend practicing threshold braking and smooth weight transfer during turn-in. With some track time you will quickly outgrow the ABS and it will be a hindrance.

ultraclyde:

Give us a little heads up first by emailing Kevin at Kevin@Exomotive.com . We keep selling the demos, so Kevin's personal prototype is the only one we have on hand right now.

As for full face helmets on your DD, I have a gloved thumb with your answer: (this was before the foamectomy)

singleslammer
singleslammer HalfDork
12/3/12 3:01 p.m.
Apexcarver wrote: Am I weird for being more attracted to one without bodywork?

I like it bare with all the hot bits hanging out (We are still talking about the car, right?)

Jaynen
Jaynen HalfDork
12/3/12 3:04 p.m.

I believe some track days require fenders also? But otherwise in general I prefer the open wheel look

singleslammer
singleslammer HalfDork
12/3/12 3:05 p.m.

In reply to Warren van Nus:

Is that the exhaust dumping straight out the front??

Serious note, is there enough room behind the radiator for puller fans? Less serious reason, I want to paint teeth on the radiator for E36 M3s and grins.

Like this

singleslammer
singleslammer HalfDork
12/3/12 3:11 p.m.

In reply to Warren van Nus:

There are LOTS of carbed setups for the LSX on the aftermarket. It is just such a solid base that it makes more sense to run a carbed LS in your classic then deal with a 350 anymore. (IMO)

I think his worries are more about the T5 longevity than the ability to attach it.

Further on that though - You can get an aftermarket bell housing to attach a big Aisin series transmission (Toyota R154, Chevy RA5(?, the one in the Colorado and Solstice), and others) to a LS/Gen 1 small block. This would not be tons cheaper than just getting a t56 though. It would be smaller and lighter.

Warren van Nus
Warren van Nus New Reader
12/3/12 3:23 p.m.

In reply to singleslammer:

The father of that creation is a crazy man. Yes, front exhaust. There is room for puller fans, but his Monster Miata subframe put his Windsor a bit forward, and those tall pulleys and extra-thick radiator didn't leave much room. The stock Miata radiator and fans slot in quite nicely with lots of room to spare.

You're right about the carbs, I just have an irrational hatred for carbs on anything over 150cc. Injection is just so much better in every way. :)

singleslammer
singleslammer HalfDork
12/3/12 3:53 p.m.

In reply to Warren van Nus:

Oh I totally agree with you that injection is WAY better but it is out there for people who want an inferior setup for more money.

How imminent is death in this car with an LS6 stuffed in there?

Warren van Nus
Warren van Nus New Reader
12/3/12 4:03 p.m.

In reply to singleslammer:

LS6? Hopefully I'll find out soon. I haven't died before when I've driven similar power/weight ratios, so we'll find out. I'm just going to pretend it's a big formula car with a whole lot more polar inertia to calm things down. I definitely have a big lamppost-free warehouse parking lot in mind for the shakedowns.

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