GRM Exclusive Reveal: Exocet Spec-A

In reply to Jaynen:

There were some open wheel cars and some four-digit-hp R35s on race rubber. The Ultima was on cold PS3s.

Here's that rough cut video:

Exo1 @ AMP (Rough Cut)

aussiesmg wrote: More tires available at 17

Not if you're trying to stay in the Miata overall diameter of approximately 23". Open it up to 25" and there are all sorts of different options.

Stay away from an internet design contest. It will only end badly.

Stay away from an internet design contest. It will only end badly

I agree with Keith

In reply to Keith Tanner and jmc14:

I'm curious as to your rationale. We're going to include packaging volumes for major components in the 3D model, and part of the release will be a small lesson on mold design and designing for manufacturability. The first stage will be rough design submissions, we'll have a method of choosing the top three. From there, I'll give a bit more guidance to the designers to modify the designs (reducing the need for multi-part molds, increasing draft angles, adding fastener features, etc) and work from there. The winning designer will get a cut of sales.

I've done three sets of racecar bodywork (one set's plugs were from foam slices, two were MDF 5-axis CNC'd), and I've got some realistic plans on making the plugs and females. One concern is the fact that we can only choose one design and it might polarize opinion, but the design is already a bit polarizing. :) It will be designed to fit every Exocet chassis made, and the current bodywork molds will still be maintained.

One of your competitors held a design contest for their latest car in conjunction with the magazine.

Seems to have left most people - armchair participants and real participants - mostly annoyed and unhappy, with a lot of internet bashing of the resulting design etc.

Exactly. No great car was ever designed by committee, and internet forums are highly opinionated and easily riled up. Work with a few designers you respect and present the end result as a fait accompli.

Or, if you're trying to garner more attention by making this more of a public process, open up the three top designs as a vote and expect to end up with a final result that's an amalgamation of them.

It's all in how you do it. Local Motors crowd sourced the design of the rally-fighter. Encourage people to share their ideas, just dont make it a contest that says their ideas will get used.

The "competitors" issue was it was supposed to be that they would use the "winner" rather than looking for what customers want and making their own judgement after seeing it

Yup. The factory five contest left a lot of people annoyed, and the design is tolerable but not exactly stunning.

Warren v wrote: In reply to Jaynen: There were some open wheel cars and some four-digit-hp R35s on race rubber. The Ultima was on cold PS3s. Here's that rough cut video: Exo1 @ AMP (Rough Cut)

Great video! Nice hearing his feedback. The comments on the brakes is awesome. What tires was this on?

In reply to BoxheadTim and Keith Tanner:

Competitors? There are no competitors in this enthusiast community, only compatriots. I want an 818, I want a Catfish, I want an Atom, and toss in a Mono and Nemesis for good measure. These cars are all different in their own special way and help to fill out the landscape of enthusiast cars. This mindset is from one of my Wharton professors; he introduced to me the fascinating concept of synergistic demand. That phenomenon explains why competing businesses tend to do better when located close together. Ever notice that fast-food places usually have their competitors in eyesight, even away from highway exits? It's not just zoning or "stealing the best turf", their sales actually increase because the location becomes an epicenter for that good/service. This explains shopping malls and the popularity of eBay and Amazon merchants. This analogy extends to non-location based analogies as well. Affordable, open, creative, fun, experience-generating cars become a more solid "destination" with each new entry. The market is growing, and we are confident that the Exocet's performance, reliability, costs, and outright fun-factor bring something unique to the world of sport, kit, and exoskeletal cars. With toys like these, our real competitors are kids and minivans.

We're quite aware of the community uproar from the 818, that's why we're taking our sweet time to develop the premise and resources of the design competition. I believe those problems stemmed from a failure to effectively define the challenge and communicate expectations to the public. With the 818, the problem definition was very open and allowed for results that were simply not manufacturable within their target price point. Microscopic shutlines, hard edges, vents, negative draft angles, and continuous complex curvature across an entire cohesive shape are features that make production and mounting very difficult, especially in a kit car. The submitted designs were aimed at producing a miniature 599 GTB, which is simply not realistic with the production volumes and costs involved.

Ultimately the winning entries were amalgamated and watered down to give the final result. The discordance between the community and design process breaks down to this: the community believed they were looking at a final design by the end of the competition. Factory Five did a commendable job by translating those designs into something manufacturable (the 818 looks GREAT if you look at it with a fresh mind), but these necessary compromises unfortunately resulted in a community that felt betrayed and lied to. The competition resulted in a set of digital concept cars and design languages, not the final result. It is obvious that the community thought it was intended to serve as the latter.

By defining the problem completely, explaining manufacturing limitations from the start, and requiring the submission of 3D surfaces models, I am confident that this competition's final results will be faithfully translated into the final result. The Exocet's elemental design and focus on minimalism enables this. We will choose a short list of finalists, work with them to refine their concept into a production-ready design, and then release those finalists to a simple vote. The community will get what they see, and they will have the final say.

Addition: Let me make this clear: this competition is only for the results, not a cheap marketing ploy. We don't want magazine coverage (that's coming up for other reasons, heh), we want to make this car as fun to look at as it is to drive. The competition will be released on a few forums, personal contacts in the racing world, and within the ID departments of a couple engineering schools. Jalopnik coverage is my threshold for too-public. If we do it right, the final result will speak for and publicize itself.

Jaynen wrote: Great video! Nice hearing his feedback. The comments on the brakes is awesome. What tires was this on?

We're running BF Goodrich T/A KDWs on that car, simply because the tread blocks look cool. They're nice and progressive with a linear falloff, which make chucking the car into a corner quite fun. I run the similar BFG Sport-Comp IIs on my DD NB, and the wet grip and limited wear from hard driving in the dry makes them a favorite. They don't have the overall dry grip of the Star Specs, but they're close, predictable, and last significantly longer. I have yet to drive a better tire in the rain, and that's my #1 criteria for choosing street tires.

I agree with you Warren. And I think assuming you are not flooded with submissions, you could use some of your engineering background to give people feedback on why their potential beautiful design still might not be the answer (like the stuff you listed above that dramatically increases production cost)

My original plan for my miata was to slowly build it up. Then eventually probably a couple of years from now when I get bored of it possibly get a new car. Now my plan is leaning farther towards doing something like the Exocet.

Like before I spend any money on a 1,8 or turbo motor maybe doing the kit first. Thoughts being that when I go turbo motor I will need the 1.8 torsen diff, a new clutch, upgraded cooling etc.

I mean I still probably will want a torsen before I get to that point but supporting mods could bring a turbo setup to darn near the price of the kit. So I could instead do the kit with the 1.6 then add power over time later maybe starting with a NB1 engine so as to not mess with VVT

In reply to Jaynen:

Check out my power/weight chart back on page 1. A base 1.6 with no mods gets you past any fourth gen Mustang GT.

Yup I loved that chart. I do have a friend locally who dropped in an NB1 engine for less than 2k with header/intake/ and cam from a mazdaspeed that makes 136 at the wheels

For me the car would probably stay weekend toy/autocross toy/occasional track day toy. I'd like to go with the cage but wish I did not feel it ruins the lines :) (feel this way on every roadster) but for non w2w maybe it's not necessary with the upgraded rollbar already passing broomstick

Warren v wrote: In reply to Jaynen: There were some open wheel cars and some four-digit-hp R35s on race rubber. The Ultima was on cold PS3s. Here's that rough cut video: Exo1 @ AMP (Rough Cut)

Nice!

anyone know what those two cars on the right are at about 3:04?

Edit: Oh it's a 999 Supersport...a VERY un-grassroots priced car.

Also what car makes that nopise at 8:04? A C5 or C6 I'm guessing.

Good related Exocet vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsCJMcg3s88

That is v8exocets car obviously.

lol yeppers

GameboyRMH wrote:

Edit: Oh it's a 999 Supersport...a VERY un-grassroots priced car.

GRM does not = cheap!

There are plenty of more expensive cars that fit into our world perfectly.

Joe Gearin wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

Edit: Oh it's a 999 Supersport...a VERY un-grassroots priced car.

GRM does not = cheap!

There are plenty of more expensive cars that fit into our world perfectly.

I suspect he meant non-$2013 challange priced car

aussiesmg wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

Edit: Oh it's a 999 Supersport...a VERY un-grassroots priced car.

GRM does not = cheap! There are plenty of more expensive cars that fit into our world perfectly.

I suspect he meant non-$2013 challange priced car

Yeah I understand and I don't mean to be a hard-ass about it. I'm a little sensitive about this misconception, as it has the potential to hurt business (ad sales wise) if companies actually believe that GRM readers are cheapskates. Businesses want to reach folks that have and spend money. (which GRM readers DO!) It is important for our business partners (and potential partners) to understand that our readers do buy expensive equipment.....break it.....and buy it again!

So yeah, I'll always chime in when I think a comment may be helping to perpetuate this misconception:

51% of GRM subscribers make above $100K (household income) Of course not everyone makes as much, or as little as that.

sorry to thread-jack......carry on

In reply to Joe Gearin:

I think the association of GRM and cheap project cars is more romantic than of economics. It's fun to put together, drive, and fix shoestring-budget nutso cars with what you can cobble together. It becomes a game/challenge regardless of income / ability to spend money on nicer things.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

That glorious sound was an LSx powered Datsun 240z race car.

Warren v wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: I think the association of GRM and cheap project cars is more romantic than of economics. It's fun to put together, drive, and fix shoestring-budget nutso cars with what you can cobble together. It becomes a game/challenge regardless of income / ability to spend money on nicer things. In reply to GameboyRMH: That glorious sound was an LSx powered Datsun 240z race car.

Agreed! It's more of a state of mind than a financial situation. You can be extremely wealthy, but still enjoy the challenge of the build / race / wrenching.

X2

GRM means doing the most with what you've got. Not everyone is borderline poverty level here.

Just because we like to shop depreciation specials and not pay full retail doesn't mean we don't like nice things :)

Warren v wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: I think the association of GRM and cheap project cars is more romantic than of economics.

For some, that's true. For the rest of us, no......if it is not done on a shoestring, I cannot afford to do it.