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belteshazzar
belteshazzar UltraDork
6/14/12 2:40 p.m.

no doubt. i'm sure it's great. it's fun to learn about new things too. but i can barely force myself to even skim the details.

Otto Maddox
Otto Maddox SuperDork
6/14/12 2:45 p.m.

Interesting -

• 86% of Porsche 911 owners are male

• Porsche 911 owners are primarily 36 to 55 years old

• The average age of a Porsche 911 owner is 46 years

• Porsche owners have an annual gross income of $384,210

• Business – Senior Executive, Business Owners, Health Care Professional

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
6/14/12 3:01 p.m.

It's evolved (if that is the word) into first and foremost a booty magnet. That's why you see so many loaded ones on the road and the Club etc versions gather dust in dealership back lots.

dculberson
dculberson Dork
6/14/12 3:03 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote: It's evolved (if that is the word) into first and foremost a booty magnet. That's why you see so many loaded ones on the road and the Club etc versions gather dust in dealership back lots.

That or maybe the Club etc versions are more uncomfortable and less practical for use on the street where the vast majority of cars are actually driven.

Cotton
Cotton Dork
6/14/12 3:21 p.m.
belteshazzar wrote: no doubt. i'm sure it's great. it's fun to learn about new things too. but i can barely force myself to even skim the details.

I was 8 in 1985, so the 85 Carrera was out of my price range lol, but I own one now. I won't drop 100k on a new 911, but I watch this with interest because I might be in the market a few years from now.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker UltimaDork
6/14/12 4:35 p.m.
Otto Maddox wrote: Interesting - • 86% of Porsche 911 owners are male • Porsche 911 owners are primarily 36 to 55 years old • The average age of a Porsche 911 owner is 46 years • Porsche owners have an annual gross income of $384,210 • Business – Senior Executive, Business Owners, Health Care Professional

I a Porsche owner. I am a male, in his 40s, a business owner and executive... but I am seriously hurting that average of salaries. Damn. Why couldn't I have missed one of the other demographic buckets.

dculberson
dculberson Dork
6/14/12 4:41 p.m.

So if I buy a 911 would my annual gross go up to $384k? I could deal with that.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/14/12 4:55 p.m.
dculberson wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote: It's evolved (if that is the word) into first and foremost a booty magnet. That's why you see so many loaded ones on the road and the Club etc versions gather dust in dealership back lots.

That or maybe the Club etc versions are more uncomfortable and less practical for use on the street where the vast majority of cars are actually driven.

The history of the factory-built, sport-tuned 911s is an interesting one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 1967 911R sold so poorly that Porsche didn't offer anything nearly that radical for years. And today, the 911R is worth like a million dollars. Likewise, the Club Sport and RS America didn't sell well. Today, they're becoming collectible. (The 1973 Carrera RS kind of bucks that trend as it sold well back in the day and is now worth a ton of dough.)

Today, Porsche has the GT3, and that formula seems to be working well. Maybe the RS America and Club Sport weren't radical or different enough. Maybe they weren't marketed correctly. Come to think about it, I saw a GT3 RS 4.0 at our last PCA meeting. That's a fairly serious 911, both in terms of price and performance.

Oh, and someone asked: Yes, you can still get the 911 with a three-pedal manual gearbox. I don't believe you can say that about Ferrari, though.

Maroon92
Maroon92 MegaDork
6/14/12 5:22 p.m.

I just drove a 991 and a 981 around Barber motorsports park two days ago. It was... surprisingly capable. 991 with PDK sounds absolutely spectacular on full throttle upshifts.

Keith
Keith MegaDork
6/14/12 5:54 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
Otto Maddox wrote: Interesting - • 86% of Porsche 911 owners are male • Porsche 911 owners are primarily 36 to 55 years old • The average age of a Porsche 911 owner is 46 years • Porsche owners have an annual gross income of $384,210 • Business – Senior Executive, Business Owners, Health Care Professional

I a Porsche owner. I am a male, in his 40s, a business owner and executive... but I am seriously hurting that average of salaries. Damn. Why couldn't I have missed one of the other demographic buckets.

I'm male and 36-55. Other than that, it's no surprise that I don't own a Porsche.

nderwater
nderwater UltraDork
6/14/12 5:55 p.m.
Maroon92 wrote: I just drove a 991 and a 981 around Barber motorsports park two days ago. It was... surprisingly capable. 991 with PDK sounds absolutely spectacular on full throttle upshifts.

Stop baiting us already with your stories and give us the pix and vids we deserve!

rwdsport
rwdsport Reader
6/14/12 6:26 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote: It's evolved (if that is the word) into first and foremost a booty magnet. That's why you see so many loaded ones on the road and the Club etc versions gather dust in dealership back lots.

Sorry, strongly disagree with this. I bet if you looked at the statistics, as a % of total owners, porsche drivers have some of the best wheelmen. Its not flashy enough to be part of that clique, thats more Ferrari/Lambo crowd. Look at how many silver 911's are out there, much more than neon green and attention grabbing orange. Its just at that age that you can afford one (on average) you are much more mature. Im at my mid-20's, and have the unfortunate combination of severe lust for these fundamentally flawed vehicles and not enough $ to buy one. However, I can tell you that I have tried the daily racer, and I wouldn't do it again, ever. The idea seems cool, having a rollcage and fix bucket with 6 point in your car. In reality its stupid and should be only a last resort and a byproduct of your situation/funds/lack of space. You ruin a new car, its beat to hell and the engine and suspension are worse for the wear than cars with 4x the mileage, and it should be purely a situation born of compromise. The proper way to do it is to buy a race car (SM, IT, Cup Car, WC Ex-touring, Kit-car), and daily something like this 991 (if you can afford it). I never understood how Pobst can drive a grease powered VW when he can afford to drive a GT3RS every day. Well I tried it, and guess what, you couldnt pay me to daily that car. I would take a GT3, hell looking at the Boss 302 its perfect except all the attention grabbing stickers. Not to mention, even if you are making that 300k, the consumables and $/fun are just not worth it to trash a new porsche.

Interestingly, I scour craigslist daily ala typical GRM ADD, and you know what, 95% of all 911's for sale are cabrios and undesirable 4's. The way I see this car, you buy it as a professional, you enjoy it and maintain it well and its in the family for at least 10 years. This kind of car has that patina/heirloom quality. Its an investment you make and keep for a good part of your life, like a rolex/omega.

For now, an S2k or BRZ will have to do. 10 years from now? I will be in a 911, a stealthy dark blue, nearly stock and it will be my daily. It might see an autocross, but no track. For that I will have/build something dedicated.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/14/12 6:57 p.m.

Um, not sure if he still has it, but for a while Pobst also had a yellow twin-turbo 996. Lately he's been driving a Volvo on the streets--one that sports a GRM sticker, by the way.

rwdsport
rwdsport Reader
6/14/12 7:58 p.m.

996-T, great, great street car. Actually, today they make a great bargain, as they can be had for 1/3 the price. Arguably more reliable than the carreras, as they have the GT1 derived block. Documented to be very reliable, upkeep is pretty high though (Dont get the PCCB!). But you have a comfy, soft GT, a chip/tune gets you 500hp, not that bad on gas, all weather awd performance with a rear bias.

Ofcourse too heavy to be a "great" track car, I would prefer a C5 z06 for trackwork. The chevy will be faster, cheaper to buy in, cheaper to maintain, more fun to drive...etc But for a street car? The 996t is perfect.

Hell of a toy in the 30-40k range.

Argo1
Argo1 Reader
6/14/12 8:16 p.m.

You know, I think Tim Suddard hit it in his June Starting Line. I love to check out stupidly expensive really fast new cars. Am I going to buy one? No. Not now. Give it 5-8-10 years and 70-80 thousand miles. Then I'm shopping. Then if the first owner paid an extra $34K in options it doesn't matter. The resale price wont change much. That stuff is pretty much "free with purchase". So these new 991s are really expensive. They won't be in 10 years. 2002 model 911s are now commonly sold around $20K or even less. In my book that's about 90% of the car for 20% of the money. Buy your "new" 991 in 2022. I've owned seven Porsches. Only one was new. I lost my butt on that one. All the others I sold for more than I paid for them.

Woody
Woody UltimaDork
6/14/12 9:32 p.m.
rwdsport wrote: 996-T, great, great street car. Actually, today they make a great bargain, as they can be had for 1/3 the price. Arguably more reliable than the carreras, as they have the GT1 derived block. Documented to be very reliable, upkeep is pretty high though (Dont get the PCCB!). But you have a comfy, soft GT, a chip/tune gets you 500hp, not that bad on gas, all weather awd performance with a rear bias. The 996t is perfect. Hell of a toy in the 30-40k range.

Sshhhhhhhhhh..........!

rwdsport
rwdsport Reader
6/14/12 10:11 p.m.
Woody wrote:
rwdsport wrote: 996-T, great, great street car. Actually, today they make a great bargain, as they can be had for 1/3 the price. Arguably more reliable than the carreras, as they have the GT1 derived block. Documented to be very reliable, upkeep is pretty high though (Dont get the PCCB!). But you have a comfy, soft GT, a chip/tune gets you 500hp, not that bad on gas, all weather awd performance with a rear bias. The 996t is perfect. Hell of a toy in the 30-40k range.

Sshhhhhhhhhh..........!

Soothing Voice ~ "Its puuuuuurfect, for YOU"

neon4891
neon4891 UltimaDork
6/14/12 10:14 p.m.

I want the GRM '84 when they sell it.

Luke
Luke UberDork
6/14/12 10:57 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
Otto Maddox wrote: Interesting - • 86% of Porsche 911 owners are male • Porsche 911 owners are primarily 36 to 55 years old • The average age of a Porsche 911 owner is 46 years • Porsche owners have an annual gross income of $384,210 • Business – Senior Executive, Business Owners, Health Care Professional

I a Porsche owner. I am a male, in his 40s, a business owner and executive... but I am seriously hurting that average of salaries. Damn. Why couldn't I have missed one of the other demographic buckets.

Yeah. You could've been female.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/14/12 11:04 p.m.
neon4891 wrote: I want the GRM '84 when they sell it.

Thanks, but it might be a long wait. I do know of another Carrera for sale, though. I'm almost positive that it's a G50 car. Guards Red with polished Fuchs. It looks brand-new.

ScottRA21
ScottRA21 Reader
6/15/12 12:27 a.m.

I'm male. I was born in '83. I like cars. By all rights I should lust for a 911.

...I don't. I find them ugly. I would take a 924, 944, etc long, long before I even look at an 911.

bluej
bluej Dork
6/15/12 12:51 a.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: Also, it's not grassroots because it costs too much money. Baaaaa. Bacon rules. I hate tablets. Patio!! (That was my message boarder impersonation.)

this should be a shirt.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
6/15/12 5:51 a.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: Also, it's not grassroots because it costs too much money.Baaaaa. Bacon rules. I hate tablets. Patio!! (That was my message boarder impersonation.)

I'm sorry. I've definitely been guilty of that one. I really didn't mean to mess the place up.

Maroon92
Maroon92 MegaDork
6/15/12 6:03 a.m.
nderwater wrote:
Maroon92 wrote: I just drove a 991 and a 981 around Barber motorsports park two days ago. It was... surprisingly capable. 991 with PDK sounds absolutely spectacular on full throttle upshifts.

Stop baiting us already with your stories and give us the pix and vids we deserve!

Here's the Photobucket link.

And here's the premise.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
6/15/12 8:19 a.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: The history of the factory-built, sport-tuned 911s is an interesting one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 1967 911R sold so poorly that Porsche didn't offer anything nearly that radical for years.

I thought they only built a dozen or so to test the waters for a serious race challenge? The R was definatly hardcore.. possibly more so than the more race oriented of RS

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