Bobzilla wrote: REally, when were they sold here?
Well you didn't say in the US. You just said cheap reliable transportation. Anyway the new 500 has been on sale for a while around the world and have proved to be reliable. I mean saying you won't buy a Fiat 500 because is it from a company that built unreliable cars at one point of time is kinda strange for someone who loves Hyundais.
93EXCivic wrote:Bobzilla wrote: REally, when were they sold here?Well you didn't say in the US. You just said cheap reliable transportation. Anyway the new 500 has been on sale for a while around the world and have proved to be reliable. I mean saying you won't buy a Fiat 500 because is it from a company that built unreliable cars at one point of time is kinda strange for someone who loves Hyundais.
No, I said I wouldn't buy it because it was hideous and there are better, more powerful options out there. The fact that is does come from a company with a spotty US history is merely icing o the cake. You and hte Jave took it upon yourselves to ASSume that I wouldn't buy it solely because of the brand name. There's a reason FIAT is known as "Fix It Again Tony" across the world.
Yep, that reason is the 1970s. 
For the same reason Hyundai is known as a furrin' appliance maker that aren't reliable. 
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Yep, that reason is the 1970s.
well, when that is the last thing you remember of a car company because they were GONE for 28 years.... what else would we remember?
Bobzilla wrote: there are better, more powerful options out there
Power isn't everything. 160bhp is plenty for a road car especially in a car that size. Also I can't think of a single better option.
Javelin wrote: For the same reason Hyundai is known as a furrin' appliance maker that aren't reliable.
Difference is Hyundai stayed and worked on their image and brought their image out of the depths of failure. Fiat tucked tail and ran....unlike $1500 Miata's.
93EXCivic wrote:Bobzilla wrote: there are better, more powerful options out therePower isn't everything. 160bhp is plenty for a road car especially in a car that size. Also I can't think of a single better option.
Veloster Turbo? CooperS? SX4 Sportback(granted,only 155hp but seats 4 real adults)?
Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote:Veloster Turbo? CooperS? SX4 Sportback(granted,only 155hp but seats 4 real adults)?Bobzilla wrote: there are better, more powerful options out therePower isn't everything. 160bhp is plenty for a road car especially in a car that size. Also I can't think of a single better option.
The Veloster is horribly ugly! The Cooper S and SX4 are too big.
I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.
Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.
Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
93EXCivic wrote:Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
THAT'S what it is.... thanks! That's been bugging me for months!
93EXCivic wrote:Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
At least it's not banned by the SCCA from auto-x! BOOM! I WIN! 
Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote:At least it's not banned by the SCCA from auto-x! BOOM! I WIN!Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
You fail. Calling it "banned" isn't entirely accurate.
Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote:At least it's not banned by the SCCA from auto-x! BOOM! I WIN!Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
Except last I heard the Abarth wasn't going to be. Right back atcha.
ok everyone.. step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath.
Not everyone will get this car.. just like people do not get Saabs. For those that know, love, and have been waiting for the rebirth of Fiat in this country.. this is important. For those that could not care less, it's just another car.
Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote:At least it's not banned by the SCCA from auto-x! BOOM! I WIN!Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
Geez, Bob, digging a deeper hole every time someone disagrees with you isn't a good way to measure success.
Fiat's problems from the past had a lot to do with American buyers who drove the cars and the dodgy dealers who sold them. People bought them expecting an appliance and neglected them. Dealers sold them and didn't care much about educating its' customers and even less about servicing them.
Fiat and Hyundai have both cleaned-up their acts; the only difference is that one left the US and the other stayed.
Bobzilla wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Yep, that reason is the 1970s.well, when that is the last thing you remember of a car company because they were GONE for 28 years.... what else would we remember?
Any intelligent, well rounded, KNOWLEDGEABLE car enthusiast would actually know about Fiat in Europe, however. Something you apparently are not. Yes, Fiat closed up shop here in the '80s, but so did a number of Europeans that decided that the US market wasn't worth setting up a real parts distribution network for, as they sold primarily to Europe and our market wasn't as large for them as it was for the Japanese.
The 500 is about exactly the right size, and the Abarth version seems to be quite fun to drive. It looks like an excellent update fo the original tiny 500 and 600 (that were sold here in small numbers).
As to the competition with the Cooper S, yes the BASE price of the Cooper S is a bit over $23k, but, optioned to the level of the Abarth, it's over $28k and can get over $30k easy without even getting to the JCW package cars. It's the same as the regular 500 vs the base Cooper. The 500 Sport comes in at $18,500 and the same level of options on the Cooper hits $22k+ (I know, I have a Cooper with Sport, Premium, and Cold Weather packages)
The Abarth is on my short list of cars to look at this year or next year, and there isn't a Hyundai on that list (had an Accent, hated it, was not impressed with the Sonata rental, and the Mustang is more desirable than the Genesis, which is why I have a Mustang now)
oldsaw wrote:Bobzilla wrote:Geez, Bob, digging a deeper hole every time someone disagrees with you isn't a good way to measure success.93EXCivic wrote:At least it's not banned by the SCCA from auto-x! BOOM! I WIN!Bobzilla wrote: I'm still waiting for the turbo Elantra coupe. But at least the Veloster looks low slung and not like a telephone booth.Low slung? Have you seen the ass on that thing?!? I think it was designed after looking at those fat people rolling around on the mobility scooters at Wal-MArt.
We were just having fun. I'm not buyig anything new for a long time anyway. I just think they are really really ugly. It is really funny to watch people get their undergarments in uncomfortable positions when you say something bad about it though... like ChrisV above here. I'm an idiot because a car that I can't drive is great in europe. Well, if they'd offered it here I would already know, now wouldn't I? Kinda pointless to get all excited about something that I can't have. That in and of itself is entertainment for hours.
As for the whole cleaning up their acts, good for them. The bad thing is we wouldn't know because they ran. That tells me somethign about their corporate policy that I do not like. What happens if in 5 years they do it again? That would be a serious concern for me.
They ran because they weren't making money... not because they were concerned about further screwing dumb Americans. Running in that case was just good business sense. If they didn't run, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now about another small enthusiast-driven (but ugly) car that's more exciting than your average Camry.
Has anyone posted this yet?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/03/new-fiat-500-new-vw-passat-which-is-more-reliable/
oldsaw wrote: Fiat's problems from the past had a lot to do with American buyers who drove the cars and the dodgy dealers who sold them. People bought them expecting an appliance and neglected them. Dealers sold them and didn't care much about educating its' customers and even less about servicing them. Fiat and Hyundai have both cleaned-up their acts; the only difference is that one left the US and the other stayed.
There is truth here. Many people scoffed at the need to change a "fan belt" at 25,000 miles.. I imagine they were very surprised when it went and killed the engine. I remember reading a rant about that, how the dealer was trying to screw them about the 'fan belt"
Another problem was the dealers themselves. Fiat never had stand alone dealers.. they were always add ons.. imagine being a caddy mechanic being forced to work on a fiat? Another thing I read was that in 1977, Fiat was selling the 124 so fast, they could not ship enough over. They resorted to strapping them to the decks of the ships out in the open. The dealers would then pick them up, not even bother washing the salt off, undercoat the salt in place, and sell them on.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: They ran because they weren't making money... not because they were concerned about further screwing dumb Americans.
But what happens when it becomes unprofitable again? That's a concern one should be thinking about IMO.
Bobzilla wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: They ran because they weren't making money... not because they were concerned about further screwing dumb Americans.But what happens when it becomes unprofitable again? That's a concern one should be thinking about IMO.
Well now that a large chunk of them is owned by Chrysler, they'll just get bailed out again. No big deal. 
mad_machine wrote: ok everyone.. step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath. Not everyone will get this car.. just like people do not get Saabs. For those that know, love, and have been waiting for the rebirth of Fiat in this country.. this is important. For those that could not care less, it's just another car.
Yes, I always welcome more choices even if they are not a choice I would want. I am glad to see Fiat back and look forward to Alfa's return too although I don't think I will be buying one of either. Kia/Hyundai are producing some mighty nice vehicles also. We are living in some good times with some tough decision to make when shopping for cars.
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