1 2 3 4 5
A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
9/26/20 10:10 a.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I see a lot of love for SBC and BBC.  Undoubtedly great engines, but they haven't aged well.

Those of you who said BBC, care to share why?

A lot of people like them.  Brainwashed perhaps?  I found it interesting to read that Smokey Yunick HATED the MkIV.  He said that the early 1963 “Mystery Motor” was a winner but that GM took it and threw it to the bean counters who costed it out and gave us the 396 and later 427 in 1965.  Smokey said they’re way too heavy for the power they make and don’t have great BSFC.

 

Edit: I highly recommend his autobiography.  Best Damn Garage In Town.  Warning- 2/3 of it is an unreadable tome.  The last third though is pure gold.

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/26/20 10:29 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Reason A. 
  In fact all of my engines are reason A. If I were allowed one additional engine it would be the Rolls Royce Merlin.  With its powering of the planes that won the Battle of Britain ( and subsequent uses ) it fails to meet the top 5 only by its tiny production. 

If yall dont watch Curious Droid this is a relevant introduction!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
9/26/20 10:32 a.m.
barefootskater said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would argue that the Chevy V8 has aged remarkably well. It's 65 years old! It may not be top dog anymore, but it still does what it was designed to, and quite well. A recent engine masters made over 1000hp, NA, from a bbc using off the shelf parts. And I'd be willing to bet that there isn't another platform that can match the sbc for cheap lazy power. I'm sitting on $150 heads and a $100 cam, which when applied to my $100 engine (with a $200 intake) would be good for 350-400hp, and not even be stressed. It's not huge power by today's standards, but it is simple and cheap. Show me another easily sourced and simple to maintain engine capable of that for less. And it'll do that for 200k miles, not one or two passes before imploding. 

5.3 ls?  Probably for less than what you have in the sbc.

wspohn
wspohn Dork
9/26/20 10:33 a.m.

1 - Lamborghini V12

2 - Alfa DOHC 4

3 - Ecotec (in turbo form)

4 - BMW S54 I6

And for those that just have to see a V8 option, the Cosworth DFV

barefootskater
barefootskater UltraDork
9/26/20 11:31 a.m.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Maybe. But I've not seen anything local at least that can have a total running package for that little. Fuel system, computer, harness, sensors... I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is more complicated. I'm sitting on all the parts I mentioned, if I could have found an LS anything for the same money I'd be sitting on that instead. But I couldn't. And it's not for a lack of trying. 

Justjim75
Justjim75 Dork
9/26/20 11:49 a.m.

I dont like the SBC that much but there isnt a whole lot you cant do to or with one.  Industrial, marine, go fast, pull hard, etc.  You cant argue they dont have tons of options for parts and uses, and because they are "outdated" the aftermarket used parts are super cheap.  So:

SBC

22r/re

M/S BMW straight 6s

EJ series

Tesla motors?

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UberDork
9/26/20 12:55 p.m.

I'm going to stick with what I have personal experience with. My personal experience is quite limited.

No particular order. 

Slant six, somebody's got to mention it.

SBC, obsolete, sure. I'm also still towing with the 350 in my 400,000 mile GMT 400.

BBC, yeah, probably obsolete too, but it's hard to argue with a mountain of torque. 

SBF compact, great sound, just a great favorite of mine. According to the rules, I don't need to justify it.

Drove, but never owned, 440 6 pack

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/26/20 1:54 p.m.

1-5:  anything but jag v12

 

devil

buzzboy
buzzboy Dork
9/26/20 2:16 p.m.
bigdaddylee82 said:

Volvo Whiteblock

Interesting choice. Don't find a lot of whiteblock fans. I love the sound of a B5234

Kaiser Jeep Tornado 230

This is one I really want to drive. I've spent a lot of time in the driver seat of an M715 but it's been swapped to a Gen1 SBC.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/26/20 2:17 p.m.
barefootskater said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would argue that the Chevy V8 has aged remarkably well. It's 65 years old! It may not be top dog anymore, but it still does what it was designed to, and quite well. A recent engine masters made over 1000hp, NA, from a bbc using off the shelf parts. And I'd be willing to bet that there isn't another platform that can match the sbc for cheap lazy power. I'm sitting on $150 heads and a $100 cam, which when applied to my $100 engine (with a $200 intake) would be good for 350-400hp, and not even be stressed. It's not huge power by today's standards, but it is simple and cheap. Show me another easily sourced and simple to maintain engine capable of that for less. And it'll do that for 200k miles, not one or two passes before imploding. 

This is my point.  SBC with heads, cam, intake, gaskets, proper compression, potentially valve guide work depending on the cam to get 350 hp.  Or, buy a 6.0L LQ9 for $750 and you already have 350hp with an easy 450hp with cam and tuning.

And the BBC at 1000 hp with off-the-shelf parts is an incredibly expensive endeavor unless you want one dyno run before it ejects the crank out of the mains.  BBCs (of all the common engines out there) are the third worst thermodynamically.  That is to say; using mechanical efficiency to extract BTUs from the fuel during combustion.  They are third in line behind the Hemi and the Flathead.

I'm not poo-pooing SBC or BBC.  They are icons, but since about 2003, the LS started beating SBC in the hp/dollar wars.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/26/20 2:18 p.m.
barefootskater said:

 

But this thread is not about arguing which is best or why. It's about what folks like, and beauty is in the eye of the cheapskate gearhead. State your reasons if you want, but like what you like for whatever reason. It's all fun. 

Excellent point.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/26/20 2:20 p.m.
spitfirebill said:

In no particular order:

Chrysler 340

Chrysler 413/426 wedge

Buick Nailhead

Toyota 4AGE

Triumph 2.5l inline 6

I always loved the Nailhead.  Sexy.

bigdaddylee82
bigdaddylee82 UberDork
9/26/20 3:39 p.m.
buzzboy said:
bigdaddylee82 said:

Volvo Whiteblock

Interesting choice. Don't find a lot of whiteblock fans. I love the sound of a B5234

Kaiser Jeep Tornado 230

This is one I really want to drive. I've spent a lot of time in the driver seat of an M715 but it's been swapped to a Gen1 SBC.

 

Compact, powerful, unique, the B6294T is the Swedish 2JZ.

I want a Tornado 230 valve cover for a desk lamp.

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) MegaDork
9/26/20 3:55 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I see a lot of love for SBC and BBC.  Undoubtedly great engines, but they haven't aged well.

Those of you who said BBC, care to share why?

Sorry late to your question.  It's simple.  Torque with a bolt in effort just about anywhere a SBC sat.  My K30 left the factory with a 6.2 diesel.  That got swapped to a SBC and now it's slowly getting a BBC.  All pretty much bolt in using the same trans for all three.  I think that's why I'm starting to really like Nissan/Infiniti.  The lego nature of them just makes it easy.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/26/20 6:32 p.m.

Any four or five cylinder Volvo engine built from 1976 to 2010 for pure reliability.

SBC for cost and constant availability.

L series Datsun for being the first really available overhead cam engine that was buildable, solid and could spin to real RPM.

Offy, just for pure cussedness of staying relevant in racing for at least four decades.

And, I guess, LS, since I own a couple of them..

 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
9/26/20 8:10 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Since the Offy dates from the late 1930 Miller design   And lasted into the 1980's it's legitimate to say 50 years. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/26/20 8:17 p.m.

I think the only engine I have ever owned that deserves to be on some "top 5" engines list is a Honda F22C1.  

I did like how smooth my VG30DE was.  

The 1.6T Gamma Hyundai engine in my DD feels like it could be great (minus some dumb programming), but I don't know if it is or not.

Donebrokeit
Donebrokeit UltraDork
9/26/20 9:38 p.m.

1) Chrysler slant 6

 

2) Jeep 4.0L

 

3) G.M 3.8 (supercharged:)

 

4) Cummins 24 Valve 

 

5) LSx

 

My reason is all of the above are very durable, not fast.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/27/20 9:01 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:
barefootskater said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would argue that the Chevy V8 has aged remarkably well. It's 65 years old! It may not be top dog anymore, but it still does what it was designed to, and quite well. A recent engine masters made over 1000hp, NA, from a bbc using off the shelf parts. And I'd be willing to bet that there isn't another platform that can match the sbc for cheap lazy power. I'm sitting on $150 heads and a $100 cam, which when applied to my $100 engine (with a $200 intake) would be good for 350-400hp, and not even be stressed. It's not huge power by today's standards, but it is simple and cheap. Show me another easily sourced and simple to maintain engine capable of that for less. And it'll do that for 200k miles, not one or two passes before imploding. 

5.3 ls?  Probably for less than what you have in the sbc.

And a flatter torque curve, and higher compression without detonation, and lighter weight, and requires less cam to get the target which means more torque....

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/27/20 9:03 a.m.
Stampie (FS) said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I see a lot of love for SBC and BBC.  Undoubtedly great engines, but they haven't aged well.

Those of you who said BBC, care to share why?

Sorry late to your question.  It's simple.  Torque with a bolt in effort just about anywhere a SBC sat.  My K30 left the factory with a 6.2 diesel.  That got swapped to a SBC and now it's slowly getting a BBC.  All pretty much bolt in using the same trans for all three.  I think that's why I'm starting to really like Nissan/Infiniti.  The lego nature of them just makes it easy.

I just died a little inside.  Swapping from a diesel to a gas makes my spidey sense tingle.  :)

But, it was a 6.2L.  No great loss there.  I do love GM's parts-bin approach.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/27/20 9:13 a.m.

Actually one of my favorite diesels is the Olds 350.  I won't even wait for the flames.

The Olds 350 was not a converted gas 350.  It had the same architecture, but much thicker cylinder walls, and about 200% more meat in the main webs as well as a thicker deck.  Where Olds dropped the ball was that they used the same head bolts as the gas.  Head gaskets died so easily, and the TSB to fix them was to replace the gasket and re-use the same bolts that stretched and caused the problem in the first place.

Fun secret.  Drill the decks and re-tap for 1/2" ARP studs and you've completely solved the issue.  I helped a guy with a boxy S10 build using an Olds 350D.  He mounted it mid-ship.  The front of the engine was in the extended cab portion.  He had limited use of his left leg, so he had built a 200-4r for it, and when I left the equation he was trying to figure out how to mount it directly to a C5 rear (which, by the way, is almost a bolt-in on early S10s.)

He turbo'd the Olds with about 27 psi and was making about 400 hp/600 tq.... and a lot of smoke unfortunately.

barefootskater
barefootskater UltraDork
9/27/20 10:01 a.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Very interesting to know about the olds. My old man wants one someday just because everybody hates them. 
 

It's just a shame that it requires machine work and aftermarket parts to overcome some factory design shortcomings. wink

Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) MegaDork
9/27/20 10:01 a.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Trust me I tried keeping the 6.2 even as slow as it was.  When the block cracked at the starter hole I just hit the easy button.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
9/27/20 11:04 a.m.

In reply to Stampie (FS) :

It's nice to know that a diesel conversion would have been possible had GM simply kept the cost accountants fingers out development.   
I had just assumed that it was a foolish idea in the first place.  

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
9/27/20 11:46 a.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
wvumtnbkr said:
barefootskater said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would argue that the Chevy V8 has aged remarkably well. It's 65 years old! It may not be top dog anymore, but it still does what it was designed to, and quite well. A recent engine masters made over 1000hp, NA, from a bbc using off the shelf parts. And I'd be willing to bet that there isn't another platform that can match the sbc for cheap lazy power. I'm sitting on $150 heads and a $100 cam, which when applied to my $100 engine (with a $200 intake) would be good for 350-400hp, and not even be stressed. It's not huge power by today's standards, but it is simple and cheap. Show me another easily sourced and simple to maintain engine capable of that for less. And it'll do that for 200k miles, not one or two passes before imploding. 

5.3 ls?  Probably for less than what you have in the sbc.

And a flatter torque curve, and higher compression without detonation, and lighter weight, and requires less cam to get the target which means more torque....

And since we are just talking engine, the peripherals don't matter.  Efi,  carb, etc...  just the dressed engine with the other stuff up to the end user.   Is kills the sbc.

1 2 3 4 5
Our Preferred Partners
pr0wLqh3Qrdu9HLOFbGWKdO8gQUYrOch6AH3z7aLrpsdj6X2wR4ZFhRJ5b6kjFuR