dean1484
dean1484 SuperDork
11/22/11 1:48 p.m.

Please everyone take the time and $$$$ to get one.

I just leaned that a one of my "racing friends" passed due to injuries suffered in a crash back in July at the Glenn. I had not seen him for about a year as I have not been participating actively in track events due to work, kids etc. The last "race" I was at with him was the lemons race in CT that we won.

Yes head and neck restraint systems are $$$$. In some cases more than a set of tires, but having now again lost some one I considered a friend in the motor sport world it is apparent that they are a piece of safty equipment that you really should not get on track with out.

I know what I am getting my self for Xmas. Since I have been out of he drivers seat for almost 3 years and I don't have a one. I need a new helmet anyway so I will be adding to my order a brand new HANS devise.

RIP Kenny

Article about what happened>>> http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=326791

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/22/11 2:09 p.m.

I am sorry for your loss.

Before you run out and buy something expensive based on emotion, evaluate the current safety equipment in your car and the likely hood of having the very, very specific type of incident that a H&R helps you in. The H&R devices work only in a head-on impact to keep you from stretching your neck too far from your torso. That is it. I am in no way saying you should not have one - just that for the typical type of crash we have in club racing - it is icing on the cake and only useful if the rest of the package is present, in good condition and used properly.

Things you should have first: - The best HALO seat you can afford, mounted properly. - A quality roll bar/cage with high density foam padding on all areas where it can contact you. - proper belts, installed at the right angles and worn tight.

Those three things cover a much broader list of bad things that can happen to you and should be considered the basics before you bother dropping $800 on something that needs all the rest of that gear to be present before it can help you.

Varkwso
Varkwso Reader
11/22/11 2:18 p.m.

Another good one lost. All the safety gear needs to be in place but I have seen my HANS in action and I like it.

nderwater
nderwater SuperDork
11/22/11 2:30 p.m.

This comes up from time to time, but I am still waiting to hear from someone who uses one of the Isaac HNS systems. The Link lists for $199, which is an easier nut to swallow than the alternatives for budged-minded HPDE/time trial/crap can drivers.

dean1484
dean1484 SuperDork
11/22/11 2:47 p.m.

I guess I am of the age where I am getting gun shy (50 is not all that far off now). If I could wrap my self in a 3 foot thick ball of fire proof bubble wrap and still drive the car I would. 10 years back I basically stopped driving cars on track that did not have a full cadge and a fire system.

Since my crash years back at bridgehampton the $$$$$ spent on safty gear does not bother me. I had the luxury of walking away from something that I probably should not have. It put the whole safty thing in perspective.

The day I start worrying about the cost of safty equipment is the day I should stop driving. It is really sad but the cost to play has really gone up over the last 10 years. The good side of it is that although we still loose people the mortality rate has dropped such that it is becoming a rarity as opposed to the norm when a driver dies.

Listening to my friends that raced in the 50's and 60's and even the 70's and their stories it is just crazy. I started in the 80's and it is amazing how things have changed. I am amazed at the risks we took.

EDIT: I just noticed that safe racer seems to be having a sale on them Way less than the $800 that they use to go for.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
11/22/11 3:01 p.m.
nderwater wrote: This comes up from time to time, but I am still waiting to hear from someone who uses one of the Isaac HNS systems. The Link lists for $199, which is an easier nut to swallow than the alternatives for budged-minded HPDE/time trial/crap can drivers.

If you want to read WAY more on it than is healthy, go over to http://roadraceautox.com.

Cliff's notes - It is good. Probably even better than HANS. But the SFI specs are written such that it is not legal for a lot of racing bodies, and the owner of Isaac has little interest in making an inferior product to meet the spec.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/22/11 3:10 p.m.

I picked up a pair of HANS devices for Janel and I before running the Targa this year. They weren't required, but I decided better safe than sorry. They've proven to be quite easy to live with, more so than I expected. I now wear mine every time I'm on track. Just because. If I didn't think anything would happen, I wouldn't bother with a helmet either.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/22/11 3:38 p.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote: If you want to read WAY more on it than is healthy, go over to http://roadraceautox.com. Cliff's notes - It is good. Probably even better than HANS. But the SFI specs are written such that it is not legal for a lot of racing bodies, and the owner of Isaac has little interest in making an inferior product to meet the spec.

Don't get me started. SFI is a berkeleying cartel by the manufacturers, for the manufacturers. Times are tough - gotta increase revenue so... those 38.1 regs for H&N that never expire? Oops... gotta send it in every 3yrs now to "re-certify" what is essentially a berkeleying board with straps thru it. Oh and those tethers? Yeah you have to buy new ones every 15 minutes because ya know... nylon weakens and deteriorates if you leave it out in the sun on the roof of your car for 20yrs. Never mind that I have a 100lb kart hanging on my old tethers or that I used my old window net to tow my berkeleying car onto the trailer. It couldn't possibly keep my arms in the car but it can pull 2000lbs up a hill. Right.

/rant off

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy Dork
11/22/11 4:58 p.m.

SFI. Bad people.

However, a Hans is probably the way to go, purely from the level of acceptance- its ok for everybody. There are others out there, some cheaper, some arguably better...

I've worn mine for 3 years now, stock car and roadrace.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/22/11 5:29 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: SFI. Bad people. However, a Hans is probably the way to go, purely from the level of acceptance- its ok for everybody. There are others out there, some cheaper, some arguably better... I've worn mine for 3 years now, stock car and roadrace.

I ditched the HANS in favor of a Safety Devices R3. Same SFI 38.1 rating so is accepted everywhere. It does not require 2" belts or have a sensitivity to belt placement/mounting that a HANS does. It does not have tethers that expire. It has a nice low back so it does not get stuck exiting the vehicle and it stays with me when I jump into a student's tin can of death.

pigeon
pigeon Dork
11/22/11 5:48 p.m.

Sad news. Some sort of head/neck restraint has been on my off-season shopping list already. Most HANS sellers are selling for $50 off through December, then there's the DefNder if you can find one or the Safety Solutions (now Simpson?) R3/Hybrid models. I'd like to be able to try them all on for fit and comfort before committing to buy, which means likely waiting until my first track event of next year since there's nobody within a couple hours selling them. Supposedly the DefNder was the best of the bunch because it also hepled side impacts but they're not making any more. I'll likely go HANS just because it's by far the most commonly used such device.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/22/11 5:56 p.m.
pigeon wrote: I'll likely go HANS just because it's by far the most commonly used such device.

If you do - pay special attention to how your harnesses are mounted on the bar and make sure the harness shoulder straps are HANS approved otherwise they can slip off and leave you worse off than no HANS.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/22/11 6:03 p.m.

BTW, there was a recent tweak to the design of the HANS Sport. I seem to recall reading about it in some magazine It's a bit lighter, new material and has a reshaped "collar" that should make it easier to enter/exit the car.

pigeon
pigeon Dork
11/22/11 6:07 p.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
pigeon wrote: I'll likely go HANS just because it's by far the most commonly used such device.

If you do - pay special attention to how your harnesses are mounted on the bar and make sure the harness shoulder straps are HANS approved otherwise they can slip off and leave you worse off than no HANS.

Scary. I will definitely pay attention to how the harnesses are mounted on the bar (once the roll bar and seats get bought and installed). Is the DefNder less sensitive to this issue, or would you recommend an R3 since they don't seem to have an issue with belts at all with the helmet strapped to the wearer? I like the idea of the DefNder but the fact that it's out of production bothers me.

peter
peter Reader
11/22/11 6:37 p.m.
pigeon wrote: Is the DefNder less sensitive to this issue, or would you recommend an R3 since they don't seem to have an issue with belts at all with the helmet strapped to the wearer? I like the idea of the DefNder but the fact that it's out of production bothers me.

Hmm, I didn't now my DefNder was out of production, but that was a risk I ran when I bought something by a new-to-the-market company.

My DefNder has little flanges at the top edge of the device that do a very good job of keeping the straps from moving around.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy Dork
11/22/11 6:41 p.m.

Maybe I just know how to mount belts, but I run 3" belts, and have had exactly no issues with them slipping off, or even being difficult to put on.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
11/22/11 7:06 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: Maybe I just know how to mount belts, but I run 3" belts, and have had exactly no issues with them slipping off, or even being difficult to put on.

The HANS company says it should work with any belts so it could just be sloppy installation or people not cinching them correctly but it is a complaint I hear a lot. I had one of the original ones - and I didn't have any functional issues with it either except that they pissed me off with the tether replacement policy as an obvious revenue grab and that it always got hooked on my net mounts when I tried to jump out of the car quickly. I sold it to a student who was looking for a deal at the end of '09.

I've been pretty happy with the fit of the R3 in the race car when I MUST wear it for wheel-to-wheel - but I have to confess that I rarely (read: never) wear it at a DE or time attack and while I theoretically like that I can wear it in a students car - I have only done it a handful of times.

former520
former520 New Reader
11/22/11 7:27 p.m.

I have used 3 different devices in Rally competition. Hans, R3 and Rage Hybrid. I borrowed the Hans and it was a model for a leaned back seat position that caused me my first fit of panic claustrophobia. It was a borrowed unit I hadn't tried on until arriving at the check in for the first stage (I should have know better). With an upright seat in a truck The part behind the helmet pushed my head forward which in turn pushed the chest pieces uncomfortably into me not allowing me to breath. I ended up running with loose belts the entire event (way scarier that not wearing HANs). While this is very unique situation, they have models made for upright seating position, my point is to try them all out for yourself if possible.

The R3 and Rage Hybrid I got from an outfit that rents to own the devices to Ralliers. It allowed me to break up the cost and try a couple. The R3 I like initially more. It is smaller, but it requires the belts over the shoulders. It has triangulated straps that meet up at the helmet. It allows for some motion, but not much.

The Rage Hybrid requires the use of a seat pad to be comfortable due to the way it goes down you back. It is invisible in use and comfortable in the seat. It has sliding tethers that allow for better mobility and movement, it also slides on like a comfortable old vest. It was the easiest to change a tire or push start a vehicle with of the bunch. It is the one I still have.

None of the three will ever be invisible in use, but none are all that distracting after getting use to for a few minutes. I would recommend trying to beg, borrow or steal a few to try out as what works best for one does not work for all, YMMV and all of that.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/22/11 8:17 p.m.
peter wrote:
pigeon wrote: Is the DefNder less sensitive to this issue, or would you recommend an R3 since they don't seem to have an issue with belts at all with the helmet strapped to the wearer? I like the idea of the DefNder but the fact that it's out of production bothers me.

Hmm, I didn't now my DefNder was out of production, but that was a risk I ran when I bought something by a new-to-the-market company.

My DefNder has little flanges at the top edge of the device that do a very good job of keeping the straps from moving around.

The HANS has flanges on the edge of the yoke that also keep the belts in place.

ddavidv
ddavidv SuperDork
11/23/11 5:19 a.m.

3" belts are a PITA with the HANS. I'm changing my expired ones to the narrower 2". While they may not slip off thanks to the flanges, I find that I have to spend a lot of time fussing them into position before final tightening to be sure they are on the happy side of that flange. Other than that, I have no gripes with it. They are well built and pretty simple to put on. I didn't know there were any sanctioning bodies out there that didn't require them now.

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