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  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 12, 2009 7:44 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    I used to own a stock 94 civic dx hatch that I used for several years as a dd. I loved it but it needed more power and handling upgrades. I would like to own another one but built to make up for a couple things.

    I'm thinking a $5000 budget.

    I would like to start with a clean car. So, straight body and clean interior. I'm good with any initial trip package (dx, si, etc.).

    I would like ground control coil overs and konis. Sway bars etc.

    I'm trying to decide engine. I would like low mileage and enough power to not run a turbo. I looked at K series motors but the prices seem a little too high for the budget I would like to stick to.

    So, a couple parameters for the build: $5000 cap, 180-200hp, full interior, heat and air, good suspension, and reliable as a daily driver.

    Give me your thoughts.

  • oldsaw

    Nov. 12, 2009 7:51 p.m. oldsaw HalfDork

    Fantasy...........unless you have access to free parts and labor.

    A mulititude of Honda engine swaps are possible, but none have 180-200hp.

    GC coil-overs, Konis and bars already take 20% of your budget.

    You can build what you want, but it will take time and cost more than your stated budget.

    Use Ebay, scour local salvage yards and lurk (then pounce) on Honda message boards with items for sale.

    Good luck!

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 12, 2009 7:57 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    Is this $5000 including purchase of car? It's doable... barely.

    I'm going to assume that it doesn't including purchase.

    Motor: B18B block, CTR pistons, GSR rods, GSR crank, B16 head, ITR cams, golden eagle LS-V kit, and B-series tranny of your choice. (B16 or GSR recommended) Clutch of your choice.

    Suspension: Konis, GCs, and ITR sway bars front and rear

    Wheels and tires of your choice, and a rear disc conversion from a GSR or 99-00 Civic Si. Convert to GSR brakes all around for added bonus points.

    Tune using OBDI ECU and Crome.

    There you have it. ~200whp n/a 1.8 litre motor using mostly honda parts, reliable, still decent on gas, and a nice suspension, you can keep anything you want in there.

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 12, 2009 8:32 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    I knew when I said $5000 that it take a fair amount of planning and searching to stay within.

    To give a little more detail, I wouldn't be starting on this project until I finish the $2010 CRX. I also plan on taking about two years to complete the build. So, I'm not in a rush and would have time to search out the stuff I need.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 9:34 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    I knew when I said $5000 that it take a fair amount of planning and searching to stay within.

    To give a little more detail, I wouldn't be starting on this project until I finish the $2010 CRX. I also plan on taking about two years to complete the build. So, I'm not in a rush and would have time to search out the stuff I need.

    Is that price including purchase of car?

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 9:40 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    If possible yes. I'm still doing research and pricing.

  • splitime

    Nov. 13, 2009 9:50 a.m. splitime Reader

    To hit ~200whp NA. I'd probably choose to do an H22 with a B16 trans. It'll get close or hit 200 with just some bolt ons. OBX LSD into the B trans for good measure.

    Then GSR/LS brakes, suspension (shocks/coilovers/swaybars).

    Here is a part out for inspiration. http://hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2679815

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 10:50 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    Any thoughts on the B20 VTEC swap?

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 10:52 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    Any thoughts on the B20 VTEC swap?

    Squish area is weird on those..... prone to cracked sleeves.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 10:53 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    splitime wrote:

    To hit ~200whp NA. I'd probably choose to do an H22 with a B16 trans. It'll get close or hit 200 with just some bolt ons. OBX LSD into the B trans for good measure.

    Then GSR/LS brakes, suspension (shocks/coilovers/swaybars).

    Here is a part out for inspiration. http://hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2679815

    Don't they handle kindof funny like that, though? I've driven a few, and they felt way more nose-heavy than normal.

    F-B conversion isn't real cheap, either, and then there's the mounts issue.

    But yeah.... if shopping around for deals longterm, that's a possibility.

  • Nov. 13, 2009 10:58 a.m. stoptheeconobox New Reader

    go for that 94 vx, just use an integra type R or GS-R engine, with a fit 5-speed box, tokico shocks, K&N cold air intake, Garrett T3 turbo, de-badged, beige paint. keep it looking stock. the ultimate sleeper

  • splitime

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:00 a.m. splitime Reader

    In reply to stoptheeconobox:

    He said no Turbo...

  • splitime

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:02 a.m. splitime Reader

    93celicaGT2 wrote:

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    Any thoughts on the B20 VTEC swap?

    Squish area is weird on those..... prone to cracked sleeves.

    Tuned a turbo one of those without issue. Last I remember the issue was more of when being rev'ed higher with the vtec head... the rod bolts don't like the treatment.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:04 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    splitime wrote:

    93celicaGT2 wrote:

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    Any thoughts on the B20 VTEC swap?

    Squish area is weird on those..... prone to cracked sleeves.

    Tuned a turbo one of those without issue. Last I remember the issue was more of when being rev'ed higher with the vtec head... the rod bolts don't like the treatment.

    Well, that too. I've seen 3 of them crack sleeves though, even n/a. One was a built to the hilt 240whp monster, and that kid just had it coming, and the other two just just basic setups.

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:23 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    So, I've been thinking I would either like to buy a low mileage motor or one to rebuild. If I keep an eye out at the local pull-a-parts I should be able to pick up a complete B18B for under $115. I'm thinking it will be better bang for the buck to rebuild an engine. Now I need to put together some prices for the internals etc.

    By the way, I'm going to be using a little bit of the challenge method of calculating. If I buy a running car I will sell the D15 and recoupe the money from the budget. If I buy a complete B18B from the junk yard and I'm not going to use the head I'll sell it and recoupe the money from the budget. I don't expect to make up much more that $1000 but it does give a little more room in the budget.

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:31 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    I woudln't bother buying the complete B18B. Just get what you need and get out from there. Just the bottom end. You won't be using the head anyways, unless you want to attempt an n/a LS build, which could be a possibility as well.

    But in that case, i suggest you start with a B20z. You could hit your goal like that, too, you'd just be lacking VEEETAAAKKKK.

    B20z + some high comp pistons, rods, Crower 404 cams, minor headwork, tuned should give you what you want, and a relatively large powerband for a honda, too.

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:40 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    I can pick up the block for $65.

    How much difference is there between a B18A and a B18B? What's the benefit of buying one over the other?

  • splitime

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:47 a.m. splitime Reader

    I think mainly overall age? (A vs B)

  • 96DXCivic

    Nov. 13, 2009 11:50 a.m. 96DXCivic HalfDork

    The B18A is closer related to the B20A found in the late eighties Prelude then the more modern B18C1 or C5. The B18B is the one to take. The B18B is about 10hp more powerful. You could probably get a B18B up to 200bhp with high comp pistons, cams, headwork and Hondata. There is no need to upgrade the rods. They will handle 200bhp. I would try to find a GS-R tranny to attach to it. For swaybars, go with the Type-R, probably the JDM rear swaybar. It is a mm thicker.

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 1:31 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    B18B sounds like the way I'm going to go.

    Any recommendations on the best place to pick up a B16 head to go on it? Also what years are best for the B16 head?

  • 93celicaGT2

    Nov. 13, 2009 1:40 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

    jwdmotorsports wrote:

    B18B sounds like the way I'm going to go.

    Any recommendations on the best place to pick up a B16 head to go on it? Also what years are best for the B16 head?

    Hondatech would probably be your best bet unless you get lucky enough to find an EM1 in the u-pull-it.

    The year won't matter much, they're all pretty similar. Shoot for a 99-00, though. Less likely to be trashed i would imagine.

    DO be on the lookout for some ITR/CTR cams, though.

    A GSR head would work as well, but it's not as widely done, i can't remember why, think it has something to do with compression.

    I may have a spare B16 head for you, actually.... how soon are you actually going to start accumulating stuff?

  • integraguy

    Nov. 13, 2009 2:59 p.m. integraguy HalfDork

    This is doable....IF, if, if, you luck onto some sweet deals, starting with the car. I did something like this on a less grand (no pun intended)scale about 10 years ago. The car was a CX that I found at a Ford dealer. The engine AND transaxle came from an Integra and was modded with a few bolt-ons (so no 200 hp at the wheels, but maybe 145-155 at flywheel). It had all 3 strut tower braces you can use on this car, so as a result it had minimal roll. And on the outside the only giveaway was a "fart-can exhaust" made "necessary" by the hi-capacity cat-back exhaust system. The wheels used came off a low line Civic or Integra...with el cheapo looking hubcaps. Even at this level, it gave a possible "indicated" 60mph in second gear and in 5th....IF you can believe the tach and speedo....a top speed of 145+mph was possible (or again, I should say INDICATED 145+). I had it up to an indicated 127 mph and it was only indicating 5 grand on the tach.

  • gamby

    Nov. 13, 2009 7:25 p.m. gamby UberDork

    I have one (albeit with 310k on the chassis/160k on the motor) that I DD--has a d16z6 swap, GC/Koni, 2.25" exhaust, GS-R front brakes, stainless lines, a beaten-up DC header, etc...

    It's going to the mechanic on Monday because of a few electrical gremlins that I gave up on.

    Selling it in late spring if you feel the urge to come to RI

  • jwdmotorsports

    Nov. 13, 2009 9:17 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

    93celicaGT2: I'm probably going to start collecting parts after I finish this years challenge car (so probably next October) unless I find parts for a price I can't pass up. Could you send me a PM with information on condition and price you're looking to get for the B16 head?

    gamby: probably not going to want to drive to RI but what are going selling it for? Any idea at this point?

  • Shaun

    Nov. 13, 2009 9:38 p.m. Shaun Reader

    There are allot of half finished projects out there, some of which were done well. As a local to me example, If this is what it says it is, another 1k would get you to 180 hp or thereabouts.

    http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/1458837454.html

    I personally would keep the weight over the front wheels down. I like the b18/b16 hybrid over the h22 stuff which IIRC is H22 =>65lbs more.

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