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June 30, 2010 9:35 p.m. Run_Away New Reader

So I have come into the lucky situation where I have been awarded a $1000 scholarship to be used for automotive-related training or tools. Along with that comes a 50% off regular price coupon for MAC Tools. I'm planning on spending most if not all the money on tools. Now I've been wanting to completely rebuild an engine for a while now and am planning on doing the motor in my '99 Civic Si this winter. I want to acquire some tools that will help me do this, and minimize the amount of work I pay a machine shop to do.

I'm looking for advice on micrometers and methods of measuring bore diameters specifically.

MAC carries two gauges specifically for measuring cylinder bores:

http://www.mactools.com/product/tabid/120/p-318618-cbg217.aspx

http://www.mactools.com/product/tabid/120/p-318619-cbg280.aspx

There's also the cheaper option of snap gauges and a micrometer:

http://www.mactools.com/product/tabid/120/p-320402-tgs6.aspx

It seems fairly obvious to me that the more expensive, the more accurate in this case but I'm wondering if anyone has some input from previous experience. I've used snap gauges to measure bores before in school, I just don't know if the other options are worth the added price.

Also for micrometers, are individual sizes in one inch ranges (0-1", 1-2", etc) such as:

http://www.mactools.com/Product/tabid/120/productid/319358/variantid/310117/Defaul...

...a better options than an all-in-one version with interchangeable anvils?

http://www.mactools.com/Product/tabid/120/productid/319905/variantid/310664/Defaul...

I will also be adding a ring compressor, valve spring compressor, oil passage brushes and dial indicator to my list of engine building tools. I'll leave the honing to the machine shop. Can you guys think of anything else I'm missing? I already have a set of feeler gauges. Also on the fence about thread restoring kit (not tap/die).

Thanks!

Ben
July 1, 2010 1:47 a.m. digdug18 HalfDork

You can save money if you don't spend you $1k on mac brand measuring tools. Get starrett they are much better quality, cheaper, and I believe are the same as the MAC's.
July 1, 2010 2:24 a.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

In reply to digdug18:

But would it pay to forget the 50% discount and go with Starrett, or get the more expensive MAC's for a killer deal?

I don't actually know, but my guess is that he'd save more by going with MAC in this case
July 1, 2010 5:37 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

Overall, don't get lost in tools for this job. You're going to face many other jobs requiring other tools. Fill the fundamental holes in your tool inventory before you go filling specialty niches. If you don't have basic micrometers, get those first before getting specialized ones.

Cylinder bore gauges. These are harder to use than you'd expect. Swaping anvils is inherently inaccurate. I've done some work in the measuring labs. Variants on choice #3 were the most popular. Trying to read a gauge face tucked down inside a bore is darn hard, even with a light. As well getting it aligned with the probe off center, man, it's tough.

The micrometers As convenient as interchangeable anvils seem, they are inherently inaccurate. And if you've ever tried to adjust those things and true them, you will learn the meaning of frustration. Honestly, you are better off buying a set of 4 micrometers and having them calibrated as opposed to a single micrometer with a set of interchangeable anvils.

With measuring, be consistent. If you use a light touch, do it with every instrument, and all measurements. Big bold letters, be consistent. Don't measure one side tightly and the other side loosely. Double underline it and everything, be consistent.
July 1, 2010 6:42 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

Run_Away said:
I have been awarded a $1000 scholarship to be used for automotive-related training or tools. Along with that comes a 50% off regular price coupon for MAC Tools.

$1000 on any of the tool trucks for machining tools will often be money spent on one use wonders. I would invest in good 1/2" 3/8":and 1/4" torque wrenches and send take a JuCo class on body or engine repair.
July 1, 2010 10:11 a.m. digdug18 HalfDork

JeepinMatt wrote:

In reply to digdug18:

But would it pay to forget the 50% discount and go with Starrett, or get the more expensive MAC's for a killer deal?

I don't actually know, but my guess is that he'd save more by going with MAC in this case

If you look around you can find some killer deals, $20 for a micrometer or even less. They're are alot of catalogs for machine shops out there.
July 1, 2010 11:02 a.m. Ranger50 New Reader

I have a similar kit #2, the 280, in my box. I think I paid $150 for it. I also prefer to have specific micrometers to measure things specifically, not kind of close.

Of the E36 M3 left you listed, Harbor Freight on the consumables. I second looking at MSC or the like to find the rest.

Oh and all the extra crap on the tool trucks are rebranded from someone else with an inflated price attached. Just because someone around has had a SnapOn/Matco/Cornwell/MAC truck throw up in their work area, it doesn't make them any better then the person next to them working out of an old Craftsman box filled with HF tools.

Brian
July 1, 2010 11:33 a.m. Run_Away New Reader

In reply to digdug18:

Thanks, I was thinking along the same lines as JeepinMatt but I just found on google a local distributor for Starrett so I will give them a call for a price quote to see how they compare.

In reply to foxtrapper:

This is exactly the info I was hoping for! Thanks for the advice on snap gauges and micrometers with interchangeable anvils. I've been an apprentice tech at a dealership for two years now so I have a decent collection of tools so far, and I have many items on my list I will be ordering to fill most of the holes in my collection.

In reply to John Brown:

Thanks for the advice, but I do already have a nice set of torque wrenches in my collection as well at a couple years of full time automotive-tech training from the local college under my belt along with a few dates set to return for more training. I know most of the specific items I'm asking about here won't see much use but I do feel like treating myself.

In reply to Ranger50:

Thanks for the reply. I have been comparing prices to the local Princess Auto (the Canadian equivalent to HF) for most non-precision items, but with the 50% off order form I'm finding prices are normally within ~$10 or so of the MAC items, so for the price difference it's worth going through the guy that comes to me for warranty exchanges. I do have plenty of "cheap" tools I'm plenty happy with. My primary socket set is Craftsman and I'm not planning on ever replacing them with something from the tool truck. Have you found the dedicated cylinder bore gauge to be any better than a set of snap gauges?
July 1, 2010 4:06 p.m. Ranger50 New Reader

The bore gauge is the only thing I have ever used in that regard. The rest of the stuff I have clearly says on the wooden box, "Made in China". Out of the times I have used them, I have never been so far off that it has destroyed an engine, transmission, or rearend.

Brian
July 1, 2010 4:08 p.m. motomoron Reader

Starrett used to be the best stuff, with Brown and Sharpe a close second or possibly better of a few things. lately however it's no longer the case.

My top recommendation is Mitutoyo. I've used their 0-2" mics, 6" and 8" digital calipers daily at work and at home for a decade. I also use their DROs on my milling machine in the prototype shop. It's solid, accurate, repeatable stuff and it's not hatefully expensive. It's still made in Japan to the best of my knowledge.

Mac stuff is the same stuff that's in the Enco or MSC catalog with several layers of additional markup. I'd suggest enco.com as a asarting point.

For useful discussion on machining and machine tools practicalmachinist.com is really good.
July 1, 2010 6:18 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

There are so many used measuring tools on Craigslist its not even funny. Absolutely NO reason to buy new. There are a few FAQs out there on purchasing them. When you get your engine machined, flip the guy at the machine shop a few bucks to calibrate your measuring tools, then you will know they will be good to go.

Starrett, Mitutoyo are both really nice stuff and can be had for pennies on the dollar in this day and age.
July 1, 2010 6:21 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

Also, its generally accepted that besides the hard line tools on a tool truck, there are better deals out there. MAC doesn't make their own calipers, and if they did they would just be "Made in Taiwan" these days anyway. Besides some of the Snap-On diagnostic equipment, most tool truck stuff is rebranded besides the hard line, which means more markup.
July 1, 2010 7:03 p.m. pete240z Dork

machinist tools? I find a lot of stuff on craigslist as many younger people are giving this stuff away from older family members that were machinists.

it is kinda sad.....
July 1, 2010 7:09 p.m. Run_Away New Reader

I'm not looking for the best of the best machinist's tools, nor do I want to get into the debate of tool truck brands vs lower priced and equal/better quality alternatives.

If I can find what I'm looking for that is equal quality and can be purchased locally for half what the MAC equivalent retails for, then I will do so. At 50% off, that's proving to be difficult. On the subject of used tools, I just typed "micrometer" in the most popular local free online ads, and only returned one result. Not to mention this is scholarship/grant money I'll be paying with, I'm not sure I can be buying used items without receipts.

Perhaps I should have just left out the whole MAC thing and simply asked "What tools would you buy if you were to be rebuilding an engine?".
July 1, 2010 7:13 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

gages are purchased from mitutoyo..

If you are ghetto you purchase fowler.

starret = no.

as for cylinder bore gages use choice #3. They are a pain to use, but can be fairly accurate if used with a delicate touch.
July 1, 2010 7:16 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

motomoron wrote:

Mac stuff is the same stuff that's in the Enco or MSC catalog with several layers of additional markup. I'd suggest enco.com as a asarting point.

its use-enco.com... that link above is for some audio stuff
July 1, 2010 8:51 p.m. Hal HalfDork

As an old time machinist, mechanic, and shop teacher I will agree with foxtrapper. Snap guages and individual micrometers are the way to go. I have a set of micrometers ranging from 1" to 6" that I have had for 50 years. I don't think that one of the interchangable anvil "mikes" would have lasted this long
July 1, 2010 9:04 p.m. tuna55 HalfDork

Ignorant is exactly right (whoa, someone record the date that I said that)

For specialty tools, buy them from specialty vendors. Mac/Snap-On just sell them. My Dad used to be a distributor. Stick with the bread and butter stuff. He has this ratchet that has a swivel head and the handle pulls out 1/2" to become a speed handle. If you've ever owned one or used one you'll grab it first every time. They cost like $150 though. If I had a shopping spree, that's the kind of stuff I would look for. Mac makes damn good stuff, and it's all like that.
July 1, 2010 11:01 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

MAC stuff is fancy Stanley. Taiwanese junk.

Snap-On, Matco (some would say fancy Craftsman, but aside from the Craftsman Pro ratchets the line is pretty different) and Cornwell are the only tools worth spending money on these days.
July 2, 2010 11:54 a.m. demonspeed Reader

Isn't there a tool called a dial-bore gauge? I seem to remember using one of these when I worked at a machine shop building motors. its like a long rod with a gauge at the top and the measuring device at the bottom and I would slide it up and down the cylinder walls to check for variations when honing cylinders. I seem to remember it being really accurate but also pretty expensive. sorry for the vague post.

I'm not sure what career you plan on going into but if you plan on becoming a regular auto technician you honestly probably wont need much stuff like this. I'm a dealer technician and I'll be honest I've never had to measure a cylinder bore since I started this job two years ago. there's not a whole lot of engine building going on anymore unless you're in a machine shop. Most of the time when we see an engine go bad it gets replaced instead of rebuilt.

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