Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 3:30 p.m.

I saw on the other, other Leaf thread that a GRMer bought a Focus Electric instead, and I'm thinking to myself, what the berk? Isn't that like $10,000 more expensive? So I went to Ford's website to price one out, and they are taking $10,750 off MSRP on the Focus Electric through 9/30!!!

That puts it at $25,640 all-in for my local dealer, or some $5,310 less than a comparable Leaf.

That means after the $7500 tax credit, and selling her car for $4K, we'd be in it to win it at $14,140!

Damn.

amg_rx7 Dork
Aug. 30, 2013 3:40 p.m.

Yep. Chevy and Ford are getting aggressive on pricing.

The Volt has been frickin awesome btw. Been getting ~54 mpg average on my 101 mile daily round trip commute doing ~80 mph.

Klayfish SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 3:51 p.m.

Yes, pricing is aggressive. If you shop hard enough, you can find a Leaf for the same price. Just a matter of which car you'd like better. One thing I really liked about the Leaf is that it's uniquely an electric car and doesn't look like a "regular" Focus. Not that there's anything wrong with the Focus, I just wanted a car that's different inside and out.

But...do you really want to buy? With the technology advancing as much as it is, what's your car going to be worth in 3 or 4 years? Probably very little. The electric car market is largely uncharted waters and when the next generation comes out, it'll make the current one obsolete and plummit the price. Very much like other technology things like cell phones. Also, what will you do when the battery starts to degrade? It has a 75 mile range now, but 3 years from now that may be 60 miles and the warranty won't kick in (considered normal wear). That's why I leased my Leaf...I had an offer to buy one for something around $16k without any trade in or sale of another car, but I passed. I think something like 90% of Leafs' are leased for those very reasons.

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 3:55 p.m.

In reply to Klayfish:

It's for SWMBO, and she is the exact opposite of me when it comes to cars. In 15 years she's owned exactly 2 cars, a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. She wants to buy the thing cash money and drive it for the next 7-8 years. We've been pricing out the Leaf at around $30,950 before the tax credit, and including selling her car ($4K), we figure the Leaf would run us $19,450. Saving $5,000 on going to the Focus would definitely make the decision easier!

Klayfish SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 4:11 p.m.

You're out on the west coast. If you're still interested in the Leaf, check this place out.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=18041&inGalleryView=true&listingType=new&listingTypes=new&maxPrice=22000&mmt=%5BNISSAN%5BLEAF%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=LEAF&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&makeCode1=NISSAN&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=69520&searchRadius=0&listingId=349301847&Log=0

I talked to them at length, as I considered buying and shipping here. Their price is including the $7500 fed rebate and a $2500 CA rebate. So add the CA rebate back in, since you're not in that state and your price is $19,000 before you sell your wife's car.

Slippery HalfDork
Aug. 30, 2013 4:37 p.m.

When you say Focus, is this the Cmax?

Slippery HalfDork
Aug. 30, 2013 4:39 p.m.

Forget it, I just went to the website :D

Did not know there was an electric Focus.

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 4:40 p.m.

In reply to Slippery:

Hell the berk no! The C-Max is a plug-in hybrid, not an electric car, and it's horribly compromised. It has nearly no rear storage area and it only gets 40MPG (Ford overstated it by 7MPG).

I'm talking about the all-electric actual Ford Focus (5-door hatchback).

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 4:43 p.m.

In reply to Klayfish:

Do not want an S without the quick-charge, and do not want Red, but holy berk that's a good price! I might call them on their Blue Ocean SV...

iceracer UberDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:10 p.m.

Seems everyone is discounting the EV's. Could it be that they are not selling well ?

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:12 p.m.

In reply to iceracer:

$40,000 for an Electric Focus, or $18,000 for a regular, you tell me? I don't think it's "discounting" as much as it's finally getting cheaper for them to build them (for example, Leaf's used to be imported from Japan and are now built in Smyrna, Tennessee).

JoeyM Mod Squad
Aug. 30, 2013 5:34 p.m.

In five years, I'll be crawling copart looking for leaf suitable for a drive train donor.

kreb SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:40 p.m.

I doubt that you've got it right. I'm thinking that they're taking the $7500 credit and using it as part of the big "discount" you're getting. As I understand it, that's how they get the sweet lease rates. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Keith Tanner MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:41 p.m.

It shows that the same guys who do pricing on the F150 did the pricing on the Focus. $10,000 off is the normal F150 incentive around here.

Nashco
Nashco UberDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:43 p.m.
iceracer wrote: Seems everyone is discounting the EV's. Could it be that they are not selling well ?

That might be part of it, depends on what your sales volume expectations are/were and what your expected margins are/were. There's also some EV mandates becoming very real in CA that drives some very heavy fines if companies don't meet the ZEV volume requirements...so if you take a small hit trying to get some vehicles on the market in the very near term in order to avoid a big hit due to government mandates, it's the lesser of evils. Some companies are also selling EV credits to companies that are coming up short on this requirement, as buying somebody else's credits is still better than dealing with the man. (Look at car companies who only sold EVs in 2012 and 2013 and where their income came from...like Tesla). There's also strategy involved relating to already committed volumes as well as showing volume increase for upcoming purchases. There's a heck of a lot of other factors as well, like competition, breaking down brand loyalty, brand recognition and how it relates to your technology development, etc.

Selling advanced technology vehicles is an extremely complex game. It's not so simple as you suggest!

Bryce

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 5:44 p.m.
kreb wrote: I doubt that you've got it right. I'm thinking that they're taking the $7500 credit and using it as part of the big "discount" you're getting. As I understand it, that's how they get the sweet lease rates. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Go to Ford's website and do it yourself. It's not the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit. It's an actual $10,750 cash rebate straight through the dealer. Link to my build & price

kreb SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 6:00 p.m.

In reply to Javelin: Holy Toledo Batman! That might just push me over the edge. I test drove one versus the Leaf, and definitely preferred the Ford. It felt significantly more upscale and looks 100 percent better. Wifey's been pushing me for one ever since.

Does it come with a charger?

I don't want to give up my garage to park it. How comfortable are we with charging it in the rain?

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 6:13 p.m.

In reply to kreb:

I already contacted the local Ford dealer. If this a real, legit deal we may be driving one home in September.

bgkast HalfDork
Aug. 30, 2013 6:40 p.m.

Dang. It's not nearly as ugly as the Leaf either. Hmm....

Javelin MegaDork
Aug. 30, 2013 6:53 p.m.

Aaaand the local dealer doesn't even sell the electric Focus. Nice.

HappyAndy SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 7:04 p.m.
Klayfish wrote: The electric car market is largely uncharted waters and when the next generation comes out, it'll make the current one obsolete and plummit the price. Very much like other technology things like cell phones. Also, what will you do when the battery starts to degrade? It has a 75 mile range now, but 3 years from now that may be 60 miles and the warranty won't kick in (considered normal wear).

The batteries would be my greatest concern wih owning an electric car out of warranty.

Industrial EVs are my business, mostly electric forklifts. Nearly all electric forklifts made today have very sophisticated vehicle management systems and AC motors, so they are not as unlike the current electric cars as some might think.

The big difference of course, is that the forklifts are still using flooded lead acid batteries. As the machines age, the batteries become the most expensive problem by far. $5000 or more is pretty normal, and thats for a product made from non exotic materials. The batteries will usually last about 5 years if maintained correctly, sometimes they last much longer & sometimes they fail early for no clear reason. Atleast the forklift batteries are easy to remove and replace.

I would really like to know what it takes to repair and replace the batteries in these new electric cars, and I hope the industry develops some uniformity of design and interchangeability.

.

Klayfish SuperDork
Aug. 30, 2013 7:23 p.m.

Agree completely Andy. That's the driving factor why the overwhelming majority of EVs are leased. There are plenty of stories of Leaf batteries that are now 2.5 years old and have notable degredation. Don't know that's a Nissan quality issue so much as just what happens to batteries, especially if not properly cared for. From my understanding, Nissan currently won't even sell a replacement battery pack. Since the Leaf has only been on the market a few years, pretty much all of them are still under warranty, so if there's actually a "bad" battery, the warranty probably will pick it up. But Nissan won't do anything unless the battery loses a certain % of capacity over a certain time frame. I'm sure Ford is the same way.

That's why I'd recommend everyone who's looking at these seriously consider leasing instead of buying. Leasing removes any battery degredation issues and depreciation issues. As for the Ford vs. Nissan, maybe that'll be the next Mustang/Camaro hot debate... I'm on the Nissan side. I don't think it's ugly, I actually like it's a stand alone EV mode.

irish44j UberDork
Aug. 30, 2013 7:24 p.m.

Not that I'm an EV fan at present, but with the battery argument about "in 5 years there will be batteries that are twice as good and your car will be worth nothing, etc etc" I don't buy it.

I mean the second part I don't buy. In 5-10 years if battery technology has advanced to make them 2, 3, 5 times more efficient I'd have to think that the battery manufacturers (or some aftermarket company) will sell retrofittable batteries for the Leaf and other current EVs. If people can put LSx engines into 30-year old 4-cylinder cars, I'm sure major manufacturers can figure out how to put improved battery packs into older EVs.

Aug. 30, 2013 8:02 p.m.

This is awesome. I am so tempted to call my local dealer...

Aug. 30, 2013 8:52 p.m.

Local dealer has been contacted!

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