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amg_rx7
amg_rx7 Dork
9/1/13 5:03 p.m.

Not really. The 75 mile range isn't an exact figure. It depends on driving conditions - traffic, city vs hwy, use of a/c.

We have an electric Smart that is rated to 75 miles of range. Sometimes we can get 75 miles out of it. Sometimes not. It regenerates quite a bit in stop and go driving. So if you are driving 20 miles to work and it's not highway and has regular traffic lights, you'll probably regen 5-7 of those miles due to all the braking. Unless you are running a/c.

YMMV

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
9/3/13 12:02 p.m.
Klayfish wrote:
amg_rx7 wrote: It is a good point A to point B car but the battery quickly drains if you start adding points - like on a Sat or Sun running errands. Even moreso with a/c and night driving. That's why I got the Volt instead.

Whether it's the Leaf or the Focus, yes, they're limited to range of about 75 miles. So even if you've got points C, D, E and F you're fine as long as you keep the total trip under 75 miles. If everything is local, then it would work. But if all your points are far apart, it wouldn't make a great car. The a/c and lights use surprisingly little power, and the optional LED headlights use almost none. The heater is the real power hog. I'd guess the Focus is the same, but the Leaf has heated front and rear seats as well as a heated steering wheel as standard equipment, because it takes less to run those than the heater itself. So the idea is to heat the seats and wheel so you won't use the cabin heat as much.

Wasn't it just a few months back I was trying to convince you of the lease?

Seriously. lease, man. It's cheaper than buying, even with 0% interest, and you don't have to figure out how to sell it, figure out how to replace the battery, if the newest EVs have 3x the range, etc. I lease the Leaf. I wanted badly to cross show the Focus EV, but not a single dealer within 100 miles could come up with one. Oh well. I hear they're nice.

My Leaf is essentially brand new. I drive almost exclusively on non-highways at speeds under 50 mph all day every day. I am seeing a real range closer to 90-100 miles.

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
9/3/13 12:42 p.m.

Right, I say 75 miles because that's basically what Nissan advertises, and it's a good ballpark. I've never drained mine from full to dead, but with my commute my realistic range is closer to 95-100 miles. But that will change when winter comes, my battery starts to degrade, etc... This is truly one where YMMV.

kreb
kreb SuperDork
9/3/13 12:47 p.m.

Berkeley/Oakland Ca. is practically a subsidiary of Prius, Inc. They're everywhere. Call the local Ford dealers about Focus EVs? Don't have 'em. So what's the deal? They're slow movers, but nobody has them. Does Ford's dealer network have so little faith/interest in nonconventional products? If the dealers refuse to stock something, you're not going to sell many.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/3/13 12:50 p.m.

In reply to kreb:

This is the exact response I am having as well. I live in the granola-eating, tree-hugging, hippie green-movement capital of the world and I can't find a single Focus electric.

kreb
kreb SuperDork
9/3/13 2:22 p.m.

Yeah, the thing is, a nice EV is perfect for my wife's needs, with her 10-mile commute. I'd like to sell my truck and start driving her CX-7. We're practically waiting cash-in-hand. But if we have to work to give someone our money. It's always a turnoff. Like when we tried to sell our Civic and move up to an Accord. The salesman pretty well said "Prove to me that you're serious, then maybe you can do a test drive." Three hours later we drove off in a brand-new...Rav-4. Ford is pushing us away.

steved033
steved033 New Reader
9/3/13 3:07 p.m.

OKAY!!! :) so check it out....here's how it works...NO, you're not getting a focus for 16 grand...

the 10k+ credit from ford is the 7500 IRS credit, and 1000 cash back on 2013's, and...I can't remember where the other 2500 came from...anyway...

  1. lease it. It's an appliance. dont' deal with the battery crap down the road. Technology will have moved on like it has with cellphones...remember 3 years ago when Iphone 4 was like "OMFG GOTTA HAVE??" yeah..that....
  2. find a volume dealer. they probably have one or two, hit them at the end of the month...they're willing to deal.
  3. it's AMAZING what ford did with the extra 20 grand.... there is a HUGE difference in a base focus petrol and a focus EV.
  4. if you lease a focus, FOMOCREDIT takes the 7500 from the IRS. you still qualify for local incentives. Local incentives in GA include $5000 in tax credit over two years....2013 and 2014...and $1000 in federal tax credit for putting a 220v charger in.
  5. the EV is way more awesome in stop and go, and that heavy traffic slow coast...I get HUGE gains in slow coast.
  6. battery warranty on the focus is 10 years, 100k miles, IIRC. 8/80 on the drivetrain, 3/36 bumper to bumper.
  7. if you're in the Atlanta area, mall of Georgia ford had two. one in ice storm, one in blue candy. it's the beginning of the month, it'll be tougher to make the deal... get a hold of Andrew Benard if you go...he's a good dude.

When all was said and done, my lease was on 27k in car. 500 down and 375 a month, because all my taxes are rolled into the lease.

steved033
steved033 New Reader
9/3/13 3:15 p.m.

Oh yeah...

  1. No FOCUS EV is 34,999 like Ford's website says. the base is 39,995. period. add leather and you're at 41k. yeah...for a focus. There are no options. it's as loaded as you can make a focus, then it's EV power on top of all that. your lease should include 6 months of Sirius, not 3 like the Leaf. the ford app is cool, the nav (IMO) is a little better, but I don't use it...

Frankly...I love mine. I get excited to drive it every day, knowing that i'm saving gas money to spend on my GTX and my 240z, and...and...and.... (or maybe it's just because it's my first new car in my 22 years of driving....lol)

I use 3kWh on the way to and from work. that's 66 cents a day in commute. that was 1.5 gallons of midgrade in my BMW wagon, that's nearly 200 a month in fuel savings to put into my fun cars.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/3/13 3:26 p.m.
steved033 wrote: OKAY!!! :) so check it out....here's how it works...NO, you're not getting a focus for 16 grand... the 10k+ credit from ford is the 7500 IRS credit, and 1000 cash back on 2013's, and...I can't remember where the other 2500 came from...anyway...

shiny happy people!!!

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
9/3/13 5:51 p.m.

A tax credit reduces the amount of taxable income. If you have $50000 taxable income, the tax credit will reduce your taxable income to $42500. giving the $7500 credit.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/3/13 6:04 p.m.

In reply to iceracer:

Well, technically correct but the $7500 is NOT a tax credit, it is a tax rebate. As in you actually get $7500 cold, hard cash back from Uncle Sam. Ford just rolled it forward with some other rebates to make the $10,250 "total" rebate, which is a total scam. That leaves the Focus some $3500 more than the Leaf.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/3/13 10:22 p.m.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Ford doesn't break it down on their site. It looks like a single $10,750 rebate and then you pile the Federal tax rebate on top of it. False advertising, bait and switch, take your pick. All of the other manufacturers break if down. IE - $7500 Federal tax rebate, $1000 customer cash, $500 military, etc.

steved033
steved033 New Reader
9/4/13 6:35 a.m.
Javelin wrote:
steved033 wrote: OKAY!!! :) so check it out....here's how it works...NO, you're not getting a focus for 16 grand... the 10k+ credit from ford is the 7500 IRS credit, and 1000 cash back on 2013's, and...I can't remember where the other 2500 came from...anyway...

shiny happy people!!!

LOL!! Holding hands??

sjd

steved033
steved033 New Reader
9/4/13 6:53 a.m.

Here...this explains it as well as anything.

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/pricing/ go down to e-focus and click estimate your payment.

the lease has the 10,250 in incentive, because they take the 7500 from the IRS as the leasing agency. that's available to you if you BUY the car, and IIRC, there's no guarantee you're getting the full 7500 because it's on your tax liability instead of actual cash in hand...

if you click on finance, that 10,250 disappears, because it's now on you to file with the IRS to claim your credit.

BTW, there's two on the lot at Mall of GA ford. Ice Storm and Blue Candy (which is way less alternative lifestyle in person)

Chris_V
Chris_V UltraDork
9/4/13 8:11 a.m.
Vigo wrote: Some of the hybrids do ok on the highway, but none of them are truly quick and STILL get good highway mpg. About the best Hwy mpg you can get out of a 'fast' hybrid is low 30s.

How fast are we talking, because I'm getting nearly 50 mpg at 75 mph in the Volt, running in "hold" mode on the highway. I've taken two longer trips in the last two months (one a 950 mile round trip up to CT and back with a bunch of driving up there over a weekend, and one a 2 1/2 hour trip down to central VA, and then another 2 1/2 hours back) and thats what I've got with the gas generator running. Both of those trips are why I got the Volt vs a Leaf or Focus or Fit electric. I can do them with people and luggage in the car, and still use no gas on my day to day commuting and errand running.

bastomatic
bastomatic SuperDork
9/4/13 8:42 a.m.

Thats Unfortunate on the pricing scam. I checked out the electric Focus, but from what I can tell its cargo area is pretty compromised as compared to the Leaf. I wish the electric Fit was sold in Michigan, that's probably the best EV on the market.

Wish I could make the math work for me, I would love to jump on the electric bandwagon.

Vigo
Vigo UberDork
9/4/13 9:35 a.m.
How fast are we talking, because I'm getting nearly 50 mpg at 75 mph in the Volt, running in "hold" mode on the highway. I've taken two longer trips in the last two months (one a 950 mile round trip up to CT and back with a bunch of driving up there over a weekend, and one a 2 1/2 hour trip down to central VA, and then another 2 1/2 hours back) and thats what I've got with the gas generator running. Both of those trips are why I got the Volt vs a Leaf or Focus or Fit electric. I can do them with people and luggage in the car, and still use no gas on my day to day commuting and errand running.

I mean acceleration wise. My insight will do 112mph but it wont get there very fast. There are quite a few hybrids that accelerate quickly at highway speeds, but i dont think any of them gets better than low-30s mpg on the highway.

This is only an issue for a small number of people, but it is one major reason why i feel like hybrids are a better fit for me than a full battery electric at this point. The hybrids are more likely to be able to have fun at higher speeds without getting frustrated with the car's acceleration, or KILLING your range. Part of why i 'only' average 50 mpg in my 60mpg Insight is because i do drive the piss out of it when i have the opportunity. If you wanted to do that and actually have some good acceleration, you'd have to settle for 30s mpg instead of just dropping from 60 to 50 like i do in a slow car.

kreb
kreb SuperDork
9/4/13 9:39 a.m.

If you live in California, the Rav-4 EV might be the ticket. It's got a Tesla drivetrain and 0-60 in 7 seconds, and now they're advertising a lease rate of $239/month:

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/06/toyota-rav4-ev/

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
9/4/13 9:54 a.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to iceracer: Well, technically correct but the $7500 is NOT a tax credit, it is a tax rebate. As in you actually get $7500 cold, hard cash back from Uncle Sam. Ford just rolled it forward with some other rebates to make the $10,250 "total" rebate, which is a total scam. That leaves the Focus some $3500 more than the Leaf.

Well, I have to disagree. All of the adds that I have read says "Tax Credit".

I just read an article on federal incentives. TAX CREDIT

Chris_V
Chris_V UltraDork
9/4/13 10:00 a.m.
Vigo wrote:
How fast are we talking, because I'm getting nearly 50 mpg at 75 mph in the Volt, running in "hold" mode on the highway. I've taken two longer trips in the last two months (one a 950 mile round trip up to CT and back with a bunch of driving up there over a weekend, and one a 2 1/2 hour trip down to central VA, and then another 2 1/2 hours back) and thats what I've got with the gas generator running. Both of those trips are why I got the Volt vs a Leaf or Focus or Fit electric. I can do them with people and luggage in the car, and still use no gas on my day to day commuting and errand running.
I mean acceleration wise. My insight will do 112mph but it wont get there very fast. There are quite a few hybrids that accelerate quickly at highway speeds, but i dont think any of them gets better than low-30s mpg on the highway. This is only an issue for a small number of people, but it is one major reason why i feel like hybrids are a better fit for me than a full battery electric at this point. The hybrids are more likely to be able to have fun at higher speeds without getting frustrated with the car's acceleration, or KILLING your range. Part of why i 'only' average 50 mpg in my 60mpg Insight is because i do drive the piss out of it when i have the opportunity. If you wanted to do that and actually have some good acceleration, you'd have to settle for 30s mpg instead of just dropping from 60 to 50 like i do in a slow car.

I don't live where I can drive 100+ mph EVER on the street (and in fact, i think it's damn irresponsible to do so when there are tracks around for that purpose). Accelleration wise, it's not bad from 50-80, and I'm just not going to drive one over 80 on teh street, as that's in reckless driving ticket mode.

Klayfish
Klayfish SuperDork
9/4/13 11:22 a.m.
Chris_V wrote: I don't live where I can drive 100+ mph EVER on the street (and in fact, i think it's damn irresponsible to do so when there are tracks around for that purpose). Accelleration wise, it's not bad from 50-80, and I'm just not going to drive one over 80 on teh street, as that's in reckless driving ticket mode.

Same deal with the Leaf. Acceleration isn't fast, but it's adequate all the way up to 65mph. Plus, it's not designed to be a highway cruiser, it's meant to be a local runabout. If you want the acceleration, range and highway cruising speed ability, Tesla has you covered...as long as you've got a spare $75K+

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/4/13 11:22 a.m.

In reply to iceracer:

I got 100% of my info from ford.com, using the "Build & Price" section of the Focus Electric. Nowhere in any of those pages did it mention the tax credit was rolled in to the price, or that the rebate was for lease only.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/4/13 11:24 a.m.
iceracer wrote:
Javelin wrote: In reply to iceracer: Well, technically correct but the $7500 is NOT a tax credit, it is a tax rebate. As in you actually get $7500 cold, hard cash back from Uncle Sam. Ford just rolled it forward with some other rebates to make the $10,250 "total" rebate, which is a total scam. That leaves the Focus some $3500 more than the Leaf.

Well, I have to disagree. All of the adds that I have read says "Tax Credit".

I just read an article on federal incentives. TAX CREDIT

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxfaqs.shtml

What's the difference between a deduction and a credit? A tax deduction reduces the amount of income for which you are taxed. For example, if your taxable income were $50,000, a $2,000 deduction would reduce it to $48,000. So, you would pay taxes on an income of $48,000 instead of $50,000. This means your actual savings would be a fraction of the $2,000 deduction. A tax credit reduces the total amount of income tax you owe. So, if you owed $10,000 in federal income tax, a $2,000 credit would reduce the amount you owed to $8,000. With a credit, your actual savings would be $2,000.
Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/4/13 11:28 a.m.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Is your hobby just to be a dick on the GRM forums?

Funny, when I build out a Mustang on Ford.com, they list the rebates individually. (Retail Bonus Customer Cash for $1000, Military Discount for $500, Total Incentives $1500) Huh, does it for the Focus ST, Fiesta ST, and the Fusion as well. But not for the Focus EV. Yep, definitely all me and my assumptions here.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/4/13 1:03 p.m.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Holy crap man, you have the comprehension of a fencepost!

I know how the flippin' rebate works! My rant is Ford threw a bunch of rebates into one umbrella one and then advertised it misleadingly. I know that I might not qualify for all of them.

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