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  • DirtyBird222

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:18 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

    Today, my service manager came up to me and asked me if I would like to do some Toyota recalls. I say "sure why not, it's been slow this week." At seven tenths of an hour per car, it didn't sound like a bad deal, and it wasn't. He then gives me and a few other techs who agreed a list of tools and a location. We show up at Enterprise Rent-a-car out at the Orlando airport where 800+ cars awaited the recall. Toyota techs show up to show the Honda and Ford techs from the same dealer network how to do it. They tell us 10-15 minutes for each car, my friend and I got it down to 5 cars in 10-15 minutes. Recall is fairly simple, but I have a feeling there is more to it than just sliding a shim inbetween the backplate and plunger. They had about 4-5 Toyota guys with computers going into each car after a shim had been put in to "check the voltage."

    Anywho, I made a crapload of money today. Thanks Toyota! Steve Wozniak wouldn't have been able to keep up either.

  • Junkyard_Dog

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:21 p.m. Junkyard_Dog HalfDork

    DirtyBird222 wrote: They had about 4-5 Toyota guys with computers going into each car after a shim had been put in to "check the voltage."

    And if you believe thats all they were doing, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

  • AngryCorvair

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:30 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

    Holy flat-rate, batman! it was supposed to take 42 minutes per car and you got it down to 4 (conservative interpretation of your "5 cars in 15 minutes" estimate)? did you put in a full day? cuz that's some serious cheddar if you did -- 80 hrs flat-rate in an 8 hour day!

  • DirtyBird222

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:35 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

    I think the 42 minutes comes in with the computer part. Physical labor with a electric drill makes things way easier. But since they were limited with computers they had those guys come around and do that part. I unfortunately only put in a couple of hours of time because I had to pick someone up from the airport lol, but it was convenient to be down there making money.

    We have another account with Hurtz and they have something like 9500 Toyotas that need to be done in the area. I signed up for a whole week of that.

    The sad thing was the guys that came down from my shop (Honda) and the Ford shop...we ran circles around all the Toyota guys and we had fun doing it.

  • P71

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:44 p.m. P71 SuperDork

    Get video evidence of computer trickery and post it ASAP.

  • Streetwiseguy

    Feb. 4, 2010 8:53 p.m. Streetwiseguy New Reader

    It won't be "trickery". The only logical solution to this problem, other than teaching people where neutral is, or how to turn their engine off, is to reflash the computers to limit throttle opening when the ecu senses brake application.

    The whole thing is a crock anyway. Electronic throttles suck, they are only there to make traction and stability control easier to program. Every car I've ever driven has traction and stability control- thats what the round thing in front of you, and the three pedals on the floor is for.

  • carguy123

    Feb. 4, 2010 10:13 p.m. carguy123 SuperDork

    Where is this computer they are checking voltage being hooked up? The OBDII port or is it just plugging into the accelerator module so that they might really just be checking the voltage on that one part?

  • DirtyBird222

    Feb. 4, 2010 11:00 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

    obd port

  • carguy123

    Feb. 4, 2010 11:08 p.m. carguy123 SuperDork

    So it could be a reflash or they could be just reading the voltage.

    You need to find a time to sit around and BS with those guys while they do one. Look interested and dumb. Ask them about how the pedal works. Say you don't really understand and ask could they show you. Or something along those lines.

    If they are really doing something super top secret you'll never get close to the computer while it's hooked up.

  • alfadriver

    Feb. 5, 2010 6:49 a.m. alfadriver Dork

    If they are reflashing the computer, you would never know what they are putting on it. A re-flash could take from 10-20 min depending on the age of the processor and the size of the base code.

    E

  • jstein77

    Feb. 5, 2010 6:51 a.m. jstein77 HalfDork

    Any way you could post a diagram of where this shim is installed? Does it literally limit the throttle opening? The official explanation is "avoids excessive friction in the mechanism", but I don't see how a shim could do that. Is it placed inside the vehicle (on the pedal assembly) or under the hood (on the servo mechanism)?

  • TJ

    Feb. 5, 2010 7:20 a.m. TJ Dork

  • jrw1621

    Feb. 5, 2010 7:28 a.m. jrw1621 Dork

    So, am I correct in reading the diagram, is it a steel counter balance or steel weight that then keeps the teeth from dragging?

  • davidjs

    Feb. 5, 2010 7:39 a.m. davidjs Reader

    In reply to TJ:

    It looks like more of a expanded stopper, so the contacts don't go as far into each other?

  • TJ

    Feb. 5, 2010 7:41 a.m. TJ Dork

    The shim does seem to limit pedal travel a little bit. Maybe the official reason for the "voltage checking" is to see if the pedal can still output the signal for WOT.

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 5, 2010 7:43 a.m. Jensenman MegaDork

    Looks to me more like something to keep the plastic housing from warping.

  • turboswede

    Feb. 5, 2010 12:11 p.m. turboswede UltraDork

    Quite a bit of info here:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ttacs-complete-guide-to-toyotas-gas-pedals-teardo...

    http://jalopnik.com/5465002/toyota-recall-the-tsb-toyota-didnt-want-you-to-see/gal...

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/too-good-to-be-true-how-toyotas-success-caused-ki...

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/toyota/

  • poopshovel

    Feb. 5, 2010 12:48 p.m. poopshovel UltraDork

    turboswede wrote:

    Quite a bit of info here:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ttacs-complete-guide-to-toyotas-gas-pedals-teardo...

    http://jalopnik.com/5465002/toyota-recall-the-tsb-toyota-didnt-want-you-to-see/gal...

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/too-good-to-be-true-how-toyotas-success-caused-ki...

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/toyota/

    Uh. Did you read the "Toyota: Illusions Of Trust, Gone" thing in the last link? Seems like less "info" and more "I'm going to hop on the witch-hunt bandwagon."

    Maybe I'm out of the loop, but last I heard, there were only ~100 complaints filed w/Toyota, for however many (tens? hundreds? of thousands of cars) are "affected." Wonder how many of those are numbtards who got the accelerator pedal stuck under the floormat, or are simply using it as an excuse for why they ran a redlight or rear-ended somebody.

    Not being rhetorical, or a smartass, I really don't know the answer.

  • Treb

    Feb. 5, 2010 12:55 p.m. Treb Reader

    Here's my 2 cents, having looked at a lot of this stuff over the last few days.

    The "teeth" in the illustration are there for the purpose of providing friction.

    The shaded bit pivots about the little c/g symbol, between a spring at the bottom and the "teeth" at the top.

    The pedal is the white part on the right of the illustration, and pivots about the circle at upper right.

    The bar limits the travel of the pivoting tensioner, not of the throttle (unless I've missed my guess or there's some other contact between the two pieces)

    I had to laugh this morning at a story on the radio. They described the shim as "about the thickness of a nickel" and said that it "looked like it cost less than fifty cents to make." I thought E36 M3, they should just jam a nickel in there and save $.45

    Matt

  • Tom Heath

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:00 p.m. Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator

    carguy123 wrote:

    If they are really doing something super top secret you'll never get close to the computer while it's hooked up.

    If they were doing something really sneaky, we'll all find out about it soon. It's the information age.

    As we said in the Marine Corps...two guys can keep a secret, but only if one of them is dead. No engineer with a laptop in an Enterpirse rental car parking lot will be able to implement a conspiracy, especially when dealing with the huge volumes of cars scheduled to receive this recall.

  • alfadriver

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:10 p.m. alfadriver Dork

    poopshovel wrote:

    Uh. Did you read the "Toyota: Illusions Of Trust, Gone" thing in the last link? Seems like less "info" and more "I'm going to hop on the witch-hunt bandwagon."

    Maybe I'm out of the loop, but last I heard, there were only ~100 complaints filed w/Toyota, for however many (tens? hundreds? of thousands of cars) are "affected." Wonder how many of those are numbtards who got the accelerator pedal stuck under the floormat, or are simply using it as an excuse for why they ran a redlight or rear-ended somebody.

    Not being rhetorical, or a smartass, I really don't know the answer.

    There's another side of this, where "overquality" is a problem. Remember last year when we were all arguing over the GM bailout? I posted some data that I got from the annual reports from both GM and Toyota.

    The basic comparison was that for roughly the same number of cars in the world, GM's gross income was roughly $90B less than Toyotas, and gross cost, Toyota was roughly $60B more than GM. Good for Toyota in terms of selling a product at a very high cost, but bad for Toyota that the cost of the car was so much.

    Basically, the article above points towards Toyota's "overquality"- which is good in terms of selling a product at an overly competetive price. But can be very, very bad if the price goes down for any reason. It appears that the article claims that Toyota has been working on this cost per unit for a long time, and they (by their own financial records) still are very high cost producers of the very high volume cars.

    So, "overquality" is good when you set the market price- as you can get the customers to pay for that. But is very bad when there's any significant down market, OR any market force that lowers the value of the car to the customer (either through better competition or bad news).

    This is going to be interesting to see what happens- even without this current issue, I was expecting Toyota to be in a big world of financial hurt with the 15-25% drop in the automotive market (last year, and probable projections). They need to sell a LOT of cars to pay for the cost.

    Hmmm....

    E

  • Feedyurhed

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:12 p.m. Feedyurhed HalfDork

    Tom Heath wrote:

    carguy123 wrote:

    If they are really doing something super top secret you'll never get close to the computer while it's hooked up.

    If they were doing something really sneaky, we'll all find out about it soon. It's the information age.

    As we said in the Marine Corps...two guys can keep a secret, but only if one of them is dead. No engineer with a laptop in an Enterpirse rental car parking lot will be able to implement a conspiracy, especially when dealing with the huge volumes of cars scheduled to receive this recall.

    Ahhhh.......finally some logic.

  • alfadriver

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:13 p.m. alfadriver Dork

    Tom Heath wrote:

    carguy123 wrote:

    If they are really doing something super top secret you'll never get close to the computer while it's hooked up.

    If they were doing something really sneaky, we'll all find out about it soon. It's the information age.

    As we said in the Marine Corps...two guys can keep a secret, but only if one of them is dead. No engineer with a laptop in an Enterpirse rental car parking lot will be able to implement a conspiracy, especially when dealing with the huge volumes of cars scheduled to receive this recall.

    To possibly correct my theory- the TSB does point out that they are supposed to check and clear any codes.

    (OTOH, to do that requires a simple scan tool, not a laptop)

    Draw your own conclusions.

  • Eldukerino

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:14 p.m. Eldukerino New Reader

    From what I understand, the whole problem boils down to a material selection issue with the teeth. They are made of nylon which is a very hygroscopic material (absorbs water). This water absorption causes the part to expand and get stuck. It looks like the shim doesn't allow the teeth to engage as much as they used to, hopefully giving them room to expand. So cars living in a wet or humid climate are the only ones that are affected.

  • sobe_death

    Feb. 5, 2010 1:23 p.m. sobe_death Reader

    Feedyurhed wrote:

    Tom Heath wrote:

    carguy123 wrote:

    If they are really doing something super top secret you'll never get close to the computer while it's hooked up.

    If they were doing something really sneaky, we'll all find out about it soon. It's the information age.

    As we said in the Marine Corps...two guys can keep a secret, but only if one of them is dead. No engineer with a laptop in an Enterpirse rental car parking lot will be able to implement a conspiracy, especially when dealing with the huge volumes of cars scheduled to receive this recall.

    Ahhhh.......finally some logic.

    snicker Logic, get it? Computers? oh my

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