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junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/7/09 5:32 p.m.

So a friend of mine has a sti and sold me his old turbo and intercooler for a hundred bucks. It only has 20,000mi on it and had no problems when it was replaced. I think that is a good deal but I don't know jack about turbos I figuered that if good info was to be found anywere on the interweb about puting it on a car for cheap this was the place to look. All I know about turbos is you strap one side to your exhaust and the other side to your throtle body and then you have magic boost. So I guess the big qestion is what do I need to make this work on a non subaru what can I make and what should I buy?

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago HalfDork
8/7/09 5:52 p.m.

You put the intercooler in between the turbo and the throttle body, then you get magic boost. You'll need a manifold, some pipes, a way to control timing and a way to get more fuel into your motor. If you can weld, a log-style manifold is supposedly easy to make out of weld-els and a manifold flange and a turbo flange. What kind of car is this going on?

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/7/09 5:57 p.m.

well me and a diffrent freind are trying to biuld a the worlds cheapest turbo car out of some sort of non turbo car for practice it looks like it might go on a 89 le saber as I have a good spare 3.8 and found one for sale for 200 bucks

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago HalfDork
8/7/09 6:00 p.m.

hmm, I'm hoping someone with knowledge of those cars will chime in, cause I know nothing specific about them

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/7/09 6:00 p.m.

The plan is find the cheapest car we can strip out everything and add magic boost.

fiat22turbo
fiat22turbo SuperDork
8/7/09 8:16 p.m.

http://jgsturbo.com/index2.html

has manifold parts that you can buy or you can buy them mostly welded and add your own manifold flange, which is just mild steel cut out with whatever tools you have available in your "shop"

I would look into finding another STi turbo and make it a twin turbo. Keep in mind you'll need to provide oil and water to the turbo(s) or you'll have a seized turbo or two very shortly.

given the commonality of the GM FWD cars from the eighties on, I'd be surpised if the turbo motor from one of the Pontiac's couldn't be used to save you some effort.

Either way, you will need to control the fuel and ignition or the whole thing will melt down incredibly quickly. I would look into MegaSquirt for controlling the fuel and spark.

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/7/09 11:23 p.m.

at what point will I need a new computer. I was thinking the 3.8 cus I have one siting around and I know some had blowers I thought maby a stock computer out of a supercharged one might work or is this just a supid idea from the get go.

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/7/09 11:24 p.m.

I should say that the car we will use is not set in stone it could be anything.

fiat22turbo
fiat22turbo SuperDork
8/8/09 1:37 a.m.

junk, you'll need a computer at pretty much anything above standard atmosphere, which a turbo can reach at essentially idle.

MegaSquirt isn't too bad to install and tune. Install it in the car to monitor the stock computer and get a baseline before adding the turbocharger(s) There are a bunch of resources available here and across the web to help with that. DIYAutoTune.com is a great vendor to work with. MegaSquirt.info is a good first step to learning about the system.

Personally, I think you need to slow down and read and re-read a number of things we've said and do the same for the various websites that get posted.

FYI: Here is some info on the car in question and the engine you're talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_LeSabre#1986-1991

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_H_platform

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#LG3

Seems like finding a supercharged car and engine minus the blower would be a good solution since it will ready for boost.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
8/8/09 7:10 a.m.

It's also important to match the turbo size to the engine size. Rule of thumb is that the engine the turbo goes onto should be about the same size as the one it came off of, or the magic boost is going to happen at a much lower RPM. Sometimes way too low - I once had a Mopar 2.5 turbo on a slant six, and it would build full boost at 1,500 RPM, then run out of breath at 3,000. More like a diesel powerband, and really wasn't what I wanted. While a STi turbo is bigger, I still think it may be a little too small for a 3.8 V6 unless you're using two of them. An STi turbo on a 2.8 or 3.1 V6 might work out fairly well, though.

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/8/09 3:52 p.m.

thanks for the advice I think I found a 89 escort to use. I found out that the turbo is off a regular wrx so it is even smaller than I thought, but I got it for FREE how bad ass is that? plus he just got coil overs so I got his tien springs also.

eebasist
eebasist New Reader
8/8/09 5:08 p.m.

Well I'd avoid V6 or V8 engines for complexity on a single turbo build if you have a few car/engine choices I'd go 4cyl all the way with the turbo you have.

Now if you're talking dirt cheap here, you can get away without a computer mod, you can use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, wich basically increases the fuel pressure proportionally to boost presssure so as the turbo builds pressure you feed more fuel to the engine.

Yahoo groups has an excellent DIY dirt cheap turbo forum. I believe they are at jyturbo on groups.yahoo.com.

JFX001
JFX001 Dork
8/8/09 7:14 p.m.

Might help:

www.junkyardturbos.com

NSFW due to some of the ads/links on the page....specifically the backlit one at the top featuring a rather nice set of boobies with stars covering the appropriate areas...

dean1484
dean1484 Dork
8/8/09 9:41 p.m.

You should read this. (Ya it is a 101 page but read it anyway)

http://www.turbominivan.com/tech/turbo101.htm

Followed by this (explains all those weird numbers and what not of turbos). Probably the most informative page on the subject I have read. (GRM should cover this in an article some time)

http://www.turbominivan.com/tech/turbo201.htm

OK now that you have read all that.

This http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

Plus

This http://www.dieselevante.it/index.asp

To be very useful tools for looking at applications of turbos.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
8/8/09 10:30 p.m.
junkbuggie wrote: thanks for the advice I think I found a 89 escort to use. I found out that the turbo is off a regular wrx so it is even smaller than I thought, but I got it for FREE how bad ass is that? plus he just got coil overs so I got his tien springs also.

If you want to ditch the tein springs, let me know. I've got an '02 WRX Wagon that could use some altitude adjustment. Might even have some turbo stuff for you...

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/8/09 11:45 p.m.
DILYSI Dave wrote: If you want to ditch the tein springs, let me know. I've got an '02 WRX Wagon that could use some altitude adjustment. Might even have some turbo stuff for you...

Let's barter, the springs are in good shape I have the stock struts also but I am unsure of the conditon.

blaze86vic
blaze86vic Reader
8/9/09 12:27 a.m.
fiat22turbo wrote: junk, you'll need a computer at pretty much anything above standard atmosphere, which a turbo can reach at essentially idle.

Not necessarily. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator, larger injectors, and some tweaking of the air flow sensor (this is easiest to do on cars with the barn-door air meter), and you can have a turbo car on stock ECU. You have to run recirculated blow-off....ok you don't have to, but the computer will crap a brick when it's open.

And before the "No Way's" go flying, I've driven one, and live with it. It's parked right next to my car in the garage, it is my roomate's AE86 Toyota Corolla. It's a stock high comp engine, turbocharged. He has the 7lb spring in the new waste gate, but the boost gauge is reading 5psi (I personally trust the rated spring more than the ever-inaccurate boost gauges). On the old turbo setup he was running 8psi. The car hauls some serious butt. Even on 5psi, it will stomp my Celica in a strait line. The car has completed 3 track weekends, and 3 drift days with a boosted engine on stock ECU.

In the AE86 world at least, this isn't all that uncommon. The general rule of thumb though, is that this setup is limited to less than 10lbs. Beyond that, and you will need to give some new parameters to the ECU.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
8/9/09 11:37 a.m.

If using an RRFPR, you'd also have to retard the timing a bit, as the stock AE86 "barn door" already gets pinned open at full stock air flow and the ECU won't know to back off the timing. I'm definitely not saying "no way," but the tuning is going to have a lot more compromises to it.

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/9/09 1:29 p.m.

so how hard is megasquirt to use? I am a american V8 NA carb guy, this fuel injection turbo four banger stuff is new to me. I understand the basic stuff, I guess I just thought that if a computer saw more air it would add more fuel as long as there was more fuel to add.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
8/9/09 3:41 p.m.
junkbuggie wrote: I understand the basic stuff, I guess I just thought that if a computer saw more air it would add more fuel as long as there was more fuel to add.

Theoretically, the same is true of a carb on a naturally aspirated engine. In practice, it doesn't work out that way. With EFI, there are different complications than with carbs.

One, is there more fuel to add? You can run out of the limits of the injectors or pump. That's a rather obvious one; the next ones are a bit more subtle.

Two, how much airflow can the ECU actually see? The sensors in the incoming air may run out of their operating range and simply hit their maximum voltage, at which point the ECU sees no more air.

Three, does the ECU do anything that might sabotage your efforts? Usually, you'll see this on factory turbo cars, where the ECU recognizes there's more boost than normal and, thinking the boost control is broken, cuts off the fuel. This can happen on some naturally aspirated cars too.

Four is the most subtle one - what's the ECU going to do with the timing curve? If it doesn't actually see the extra air, you'll have a timing curve like a naturally aspirated engine. There are workarounds for this, from simply retarding the distributor to adding boost retard settings.

so how hard is megasquirt to use? I am a american V8 NA carb guy, this fuel injection turbo four banger stuff is new to me.

I would say it's harder than getting a carbureted engine up and running, but easier than making a blow through carb run right. By "right," I mean that it's as drivable as a new car off the lot, no odd starting quirks, cruising pig rich, or that sort of thing.

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/9/09 5:37 p.m.

Thanks for info. I never thought about the compter haveing a maximum air reading. I have been doing alot of reading on the links every one has been posting I think I may be biteing off more than I can chew, but screw it you only live once right.

fiat22turbo
fiat22turbo SuperDork
8/9/09 6:28 p.m.

Good attitude! Just go slowly and do one step at a time and you'll probably do okay.

If the Escort you're using is new enough to use the Mazda engine, you might find ready made exhaust manifolds and tuning advice. If it is old enough to use the Ford CVH engine, then there was a Turbo version of that engine available in the Escort.

Either way, post some pictures of the car and we can give you some pointers and generally confuse and corrupt you completely :)

junkbuggie
junkbuggie New Reader
8/9/09 11:13 p.m.

The two most likely cars that I am building are a 92 jetta and a 95 neon. The neon cost 500 bucks but it has been sitting for awhile now and won't start I am going to look at it with a can of starting fluid and a battery tomorrow. I looked at the jetta and it is rough some one beat the hell out of it. At 200 bucks for a running driving car I can't complane to much. In all honesty I am planing on just making a street legal demolition derby car with boost any way.

slefain
slefain Dork
8/10/09 9:14 a.m.

Who needs a turbo?

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
8/10/09 9:36 a.m.
junkbuggie wrote:
DILYSI Dave wrote: If you want to ditch the tein springs, let me know. I've got an '02 WRX Wagon that could use some altitude adjustment. Might even have some turbo stuff for you...

Let's barter, the springs are in good shape I have the stock struts also but I am unsure of the conditon.

Let me dig through my turbo pile and see what you might find useful.

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