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jstein77
jstein77 HalfDork
2/15/10 9:06 p.m.

It's too early in the season to tell, but I have a few predictions. My Sentra will be in there, I think, and the Acura RSX should also be a contender. But there's a dark horse out there, especially on tighter courses - the '88-91 Honda CRX Si. It may have a lot less horsepower than most of the class, but it also has feather weight and sophisticated suspension geometry in it's plus column. It has an open differential, but not too many ponies to make it spin the inside front. I spotted several on the Orlando Craigs list in the $1-3K price range, a couple of which looked in excellent condition. Think it has a chance?

moxnix
moxnix New Reader
2/15/10 9:24 p.m.

No.

It was not really a contender before the Mini so I see no reason it would be better now.

I think we will see some people return with the celica (Former top dog) But I think other cars in the class are better than the celica I Would be looking at (not in any order).

SRT-4 ACR, Spec-V, Genesis, MSP

P71
P71 SuperDork
2/15/10 9:47 p.m.

SRT-4 is in the same class as a CRX? WTF is the SCCA smoking? The CRX is awesome in STS(2) but is only against Miata's and MR2's. A 250+HP Turbo screamer would eat it alive. We have a local one that's modded and is a regular contender for FTD.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator
2/15/10 10:21 p.m.

I really like this year's class shakeup. Lets hear it for variety!

SRT-4s don't have a strong history at Nationals, and I don't think the Mazdaspeed Protege will fare much better. The CRX is an interesting option, but I think it's too far down on power. I would love to see the Genesis become the it car, but I don't think it will be in a stock class unless the R-spec is "greater than the sum of its parts" good.

Spec V? RSX? Who knows. I just like that they're close enough to enjoy a discussion.

moxnix
moxnix New Reader
2/15/10 10:40 p.m.

SRT-4 - 5th place in DS 06. 7th place DS 07

MSP - 6th place in DS 05

Not many people ran them in DS against the ITR and the 330 and nobody wanted to try them against the Mini last year. I think if anybody decides to try one again they will do well unless the Genesis is an overdog in the class.

Vigo
Vigo Reader
2/15/10 10:52 p.m.
I would love to see the Genesis become the it car, but I don't think it will be in a stock class unless the R-spec is "greater than the sum of its parts" good.

I just checked Pax at the only autocross ive been to this year.. and a G stock genesis r-spec paxd 5th out of 89. Afaik, that thing is WAAAY up in the runnings based on what i saw.

jstein77
jstein77 HalfDork
2/16/10 7:32 a.m.
moxnix wrote: SRT-4 - 5th place in DS 06. 7th place DS 07 MSP - 6th place in DS 05 Not many people ran them in DS against the ITR and the 330 and nobody wanted to try them against the Mini last year. I think if anybody decides to try one again they will do well unless the Genesis is an overdog in the class.

I don't know about '07, but I know the 5th place in '06 was a GRM project car in the hands of Mark Daddio, who is capable of winning any class at any time. I also recall that Mark and Per were running about 65 psi in the rear tires to keep it from plowing like a pig. As Per said at the time, "All the horsepower in the world won't do you any good if you can't get it to the ground."

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
2/16/10 7:39 a.m.

That was 2004...time flies. That was also the non-ACR version. I'd bet an ACR version could do better.

Gimp
Gimp Dork
2/16/10 8:38 a.m.

The Genesis R-Spec will probably do well, but it is doomed to become another Cooper-like tire eater since the SCCA rejected the usage of the included camber bolts due to some lawyer speak. With the bolts it would have been a hugely strong contender.

As far as SRT-4, the only one that has a shot is the ACR. I had a non-ACR and the 17x6 wheels in stock class are pathetic.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
2/16/10 9:32 a.m.

I'm assuming we're talking about the 7th gen Celica GTS?

I don't know why more people don't run them...

maroon92
maroon92 SuperDork
2/16/10 9:50 a.m.

More importantly, what will win in HS?

I would like to see the Genesis win in GS though... that is a car that needs some recognition.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator
2/16/10 10:03 a.m.
maroon92 wrote: I would like to see the Genesis win in GS though... that is a car that needs to earn some recognition.

Fixed this a little bit. I hope the car does well enough to stick around for a while, but it's been given all the free, new-model press it's likely to get until it starts to prove itself in competition.

My .02, YMMV.

moxnix
moxnix New Reader
2/16/10 10:42 a.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: I'm assuming we're talking about the 7th gen Celica GTS? I don't know why more people don't run them...

Actually IIRC the 7th gen Celica GT. The GTS is in the same class now but the gearing is not as good for autox with the 6 speed.

People don't run them because the Mini Cooper S is faster in stock class and they were in the same class.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
2/16/10 10:58 a.m.
moxnix wrote:
93celicaGT2 wrote: I'm assuming we're talking about the 7th gen Celica GTS? I don't know why more people don't run them...

Actually IIRC the 7th gen Celica GT. The GTS is in the same class now but the gearing is not as good for autox with the 6 speed.

People don't run them because the Mini Cooper S is faster in stock class and they were in the same class.

Hrmmm... that's strange. I thought the GTS would actually hit just as high if not higher than the GT in 2nd gear. You might need to shift into third because it is that much faster, but i'm pretty sure it'll still hit the holy grail of 60mph in 2nd.

Guess i forgot about the Cooper S, though.

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
2/16/10 10:59 a.m.

But now the Cooper S has moved to D, so it opens it back up for the Celica.

racerdave600
racerdave600 Reader
2/16/10 11:06 a.m.

I think the Celica is the dark horse. It's a great handling car, probably the best listed so far. It also has been re-classed to SSC in road racing. Very interesting.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
2/16/10 11:27 a.m.

2500lbs, 180hp, great handling... Yeah. I like it.

You know, not that i could possibly be biased or anything.

moxnix
moxnix New Reader
2/16/10 12:22 p.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: Hrmmm... that's strange. I thought the GTS would actually hit just as high if not higher than the GT in 2nd gear. You might need to shift into third because it is that much faster, but i'm pretty sure it'll still hit the holy grail of 60mph in 2nd. Guess i forgot about the Cooper S, though.

I could be wrong on that one then. The GT-S was in DS when the GT was top dog. It was moved down in 06 right after the MCS took over the class. I thought some Celica GT drivers tried it at that time and did not find it much if any faster than the GT but it could have just been that it could not keep up with the MCS. I still don't think it will be the fastest car for the class now.

poopshovel
poopshovel SuperDork
2/16/10 1:13 p.m.

I'm so far out of the loop I probably don't have any business posting here, but didn't Robert Carpenter win GS at nats in a Celica GTS a few years back (pre-MCS?)

moxnix
moxnix New Reader
2/16/10 1:47 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: I'm so far out of the loop I probably don't have any business posting here, but didn't Robert Carpenter win GS at nats in a Celica GTS a few years back (pre-MCS?)

No that was a Celica GT in 2004. The GTS was in DS at the time.

rwdsport
rwdsport New Reader
2/16/10 3:05 p.m.

I stumbled on a forum once looking for the answer...

Most people were complaining that the genesis will be as dominant as the cooper. They were saying the top 5 being the SRT, Celica, mazdaspeed, genesis and 06-08 civic.

I think that if someone can harness an ARC, it will destroy the genesis. Its much lighter, faster, LSD. I can see this car just being very vicious in a brute way, a la GLH. The celica I also see being potent just because of how light it is, and decent power.

I think the civic should not be discredited. 200hp, LSD, great handling and not too heavy. Provided no one tames the ACR sledgehammer, I think this mediocre car might have a surprise shot.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator
2/16/10 4:24 p.m.
rwdsport wrote: I think that if someone can harness an ARC, it will destroy the genesis. Its much lighter, faster, LSD. I can see this car just being very vicious in a brute way, a la GLH. The celica I also see being potent just because of how light it is, and decent power. I think the civic should not be discredited. 200hp, LSD, great handling and not too heavy. Provided no one tames the ACR sledgehammer, I think this mediocre car might have a surprise shot.

Good points in there. I am dubious about the chances of an SRT-4, but would love to be proven wrong.

I LOVE the fact that this is a legitimate discussion on several possible contenders. Bring it on, drivers!

paul
paul New Reader
2/16/10 4:46 p.m.

What class is the new mustang v6 going to be in, D or G stock?

Will
Will Reader
2/16/10 5:23 p.m.
paul wrote: What class is the new mustang v6 going to be in, D or G stock?

Good question. Since it has an optional LSD and makes more power than the 05-09 Mustang GT, I'd put it in FS.

maroon92
maroon92 SuperDork
2/16/10 6:41 p.m.

That is an interesting consideration...

with less weight in the front, the V6 mustang might be a good contender for regional wins in FS...how would it do at Nats with a new front sway, sticky tires, and dampers?

what is it about Shelbys that makes them so much better than a regular GT?

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