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Jan. 17, 2010 1:49 p.m. digdug18 Reader

Vigo wrote:

I get the impression in this thread that many people can read webpages better than they read cars. I have NO honda experience, and i can make my mother's integra go around the track JUST AS FAST as a real ITR for less than the price difference, and at that point whatever qualms are still to be had are to be defined as 'fanboi syndrome', wanting the better trim level because its rarer, you think its cooler, its give you more to talk/brag about, or makes you more popular with other fanbois.

Yeah, it has been proven time and time again that the type-r is faster around the track then the other integra models. So I call your above statement bull$hit.

And as far as the fanboi syndrome, ITR's ARE worth the money, otherwise they would be priced on par with every other integra. And if you don't believe me check out the bluebook price for one.

Andrew
Jan. 17, 2010 2:06 p.m. z31maniac Dork

You're reading comprehension is failing you.

He's saying you can make a non-ITR as fast as an ITR, but fanbois still think the ITR is better because of the rarity factor.

Just like you can make a 135i trounce an M3 for less than the M3 costs, but most will still think the M is cooler due to the exclusivity.
Jan. 17, 2010 5:11 p.m. digdug18 Reader

z31maniac wrote:

You're reading comprehension is failing you.

He's saying you can make a non-ITR as fast as an ITR, but fanbois still think the ITR is better because of the rarity factor.

Just like you can make a 135i trounce an M3 for less than the M3 costs, but most will still think the M is cooler due to the exclusivity.

In your instance of the 135i, yes you can. But its still no M3. And an ITR is still better, just as the M3 is better because of what it came with from the factory, the reliability, and the coolness factor doesn't hurt either. When you figure that his mother's integra cost 5k and you can buy a ITR for 6500 or so, the answer is still no, you can't make it go round a track faster.

Andrew
Jan. 17, 2010 5:23 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

digdug18 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

You're reading comprehension is failing you.

He's saying you can make a non-ITR as fast as an ITR, but fanbois still think the ITR is better because of the rarity factor.

Just like you can make a 135i trounce an M3 for less than the M3 costs, but most will still think the M is cooler due to the exclusivity.

In your instance of the 135i, yes you can. But its still no M3. And an ITR is still better, just as the M3 is better because of what it came with from the factory, the reliability, and the coolness factor doesn't hurt either. When you figure that his mother's integra cost 5k and you can buy a ITR for 6500 or so, the answer is still no, you can't make it go round a track faster.

Andrew

Where are you finding ITRs for 6500?
Jan. 17, 2010 6:30 p.m. digdug18 Reader

I actually saw one on CL a couple of months ago that had been tapped in the side. it needed a new passengers side door, front fender, and paint, but was otherwise in good condition.

BTW 93celitaGT2, i did a bad bad thing and bought a alltrac motor, a 205 motor to be exact, a guy in philly was selling one for cheap, $700, so I just had to take it off his hands. My G/f isn't exactly happy I got it, but then again I won't say anything next time she goes for a prada sale, lol.

Andrew
Jan. 17, 2010 6:46 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

What did you buy it FOR? Did it happen to be from a guy named Dan?
Jan. 17, 2010 8:14 p.m. digdug18 Reader

No, not a guy from a guy named dan. Its a complete swap, turbo, motor, ecu, everything. Well at some point I am planning on getting a alltrac, so I figured that I would need it, and the price was right, so why not, lol. The guy said he had it because there was room on a shipping container from japan, and just wanted to get rid of it for a good price. i picked it up at his warehouse, and from the look at it there were a heck of alot of additional motors, front clips, fenders, misc parts, etc.

Andrew
Jan. 18, 2010 12:33 a.m. yellowstonepart New Reader

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Jan. 18, 2010 1:33 a.m. gamby SuperDork

Vigo wrote:

I get the impression in this thread that many people can read webpages better than they read cars. I have NO honda experience, and i can make my mother's integra go around the track JUST AS FAST as a real ITR for less than the price difference, and at that point whatever qualms are still to be had are to be defined as 'fanboi syndrome', wanting the better trim level because its rarer, you think its cooler, its give you more to talk/brag about, or makes you more popular with other fanbois. To me, paying 13 grand more to get the real thing is just paying 13 grand more to get 5grand more performance and to get your car stolen, possibly 3 times.

I mean, i like integras.. a LOT. But i will never pay large sums of money for something where the price is 50% higher than the nuts and bolts can justify, just because its popular. This is the same reason i WOULD have considered buying a TT Supra BEFORE fast and furious 1 (back when they were priced according to what they were worth), and will not now.

When my mom was thinking about buying hers, i said: I think its one of the best car designs of the 90s.. anything between 3 and 4k will be a smoking deal (01 ls 5spd, 64k no known issues). She ended paying 5, which i was ambivalent about, and having driven the car (and other integras), i still think based on what it does, its worth 3-4k of real money, i.e. NOT considering the popularity tax.

It also had millions upon millions of Honda factory R&D behind it to make it perfect. Something to be said for Honda engineers modding a car vs. vt3chead245 from the web doing it.
Jan. 18, 2010 10:38 a.m. z31maniac Dork

digdug18 wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

You're reading comprehension is failing you.

He's saying you can make a non-ITR as fast as an ITR, but fanbois still think the ITR is better because of the rarity factor.

Just like you can make a 135i trounce an M3 for less than the M3 costs, but most will still think the M is cooler due to the exclusivity.

In your instance of the 135i, yes you can. But its still no M3. And an ITR is still better, just as the M3 is better because of what it came with from the factory, the reliability, and the coolness factor doesn't hurt either. When you figure that his mother's integra cost 5k and you can buy a ITR for 6500 or so, the answer is still no, you can't make it go round a track faster.

Andrew

Thank for perfectly illustrating my previous comment.
Jan. 18, 2010 12:07 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

digdug18 wrote:

No, not a guy from a guy named dan. Its a complete swap, turbo, motor, ecu, everything. Well at some point I am planning on getting a alltrac, so I figured that I would need it, and the price was right, so why not, lol. The guy said he had it because there was room on a shipping container from japan, and just wanted to get rid of it for a good price. i picked it up at his warehouse, and from the look at it there were a heck of alot of additional motors, front clips, fenders, misc parts, etc.

Andrew

Let me know if you need to get rid of that.... Would you mind finding out for me if he has any others? Either ST205 or Caldina GT4 motors?
Jan. 18, 2010 2:22 p.m. digdug18 Reader

He doesn't have any more of the st205 motors, i have the only one. the only reason he shipped it here was because they had it out of a jdm car and there was room on the container. if you look around, i did for a bit, you can find them pretty cheap, i think they are around 1700 or so...

Andrew
Jan. 19, 2010 7:08 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

digdug18 wrote:

He doesn't have any more of the st205 motors, i have the only one. the only reason he shipped it here was because they had it out of a jdm car and there was room on the container. if you look around, i did for a bit, you can find them pretty cheap, i think they are around 1700 or so...

Andrew

Yeah, you prompted me to look on Ebay again. I'll probably just end up with a Caldina 3sgte like originally planned. It's full of stronger bottom end goodness, COP ignition, and it's cheaper. Like.. $1300 shipped to my door. I'd end up selling the stuff that makes the ST205 motor cool, anyways. Don't want the w2a intercooler, or the ct20b turbo, or the transmission.
Jan. 19, 2010 7:56 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

Don't mind me... just being one of the most awesome FWD cars, ever.
Jan. 19, 2010 1:08 p.m. gamby SuperDork

That wasn't AWD???

Were they even in the States or Japan-only?
Jan. 19, 2010 1:13 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

gamby wrote:

That wasn't AWD???

Were they even in the States or Japan-only?

I think you're thinking about the ST205 GT4.

That picture is the SS-III. Powered by the BEAMS 3sge, and had the ST205 "SuperStrut" suspension. (Which was awesome, but expensive to modify)

They weren't in the US, no... but it's fairly easy to stuff a BEAMS into the 4-6th generation FWD Celicas. That was actually the most powerful n/a Celica motor to date.

Sure is nice-looking though, isn't it? It was a slightly different animal than the ITR, but i don't imagine the end result was much different. I'd rather have an ITR for really tight autocross courses, but if i could get my hands on an SS-III, i think it would easily give the ITR a run for it's money on a longer course, open track, or back roads.

Of course, this is all theoretically bench racing. I've driven an ITR, but haven't driven an SS-III.
Jan. 21, 2010 9:46 p.m. Vigo Reader

That body style of Celica sure does look awesome with the right pieces on it. It also looks really lame with NOTHING on it. I guess its one of the few cars that i think NEEDS a bodykit of some kind.
Jan. 22, 2010 8:08 a.m. Ian F Dork

I think we've gone a bit off-track... (although as a former '91 Integra owner, I've enjoyed reading it).

The OP was looking to clone an ITR for autocross... D-Stock, I'm assuming - since the ITR appears to be the car to beat in that class? A std Integra with enough mods to make it as fast as a ITR would not be in D-Stock.

Maybe he is thinking along the same lines of how one can clone an "R-package" Miata from a base car. It seems doing the same to build a ITR is not possible due to structural differences in the car.
Jan. 22, 2010 8:21 a.m. Vigo Reader

So here's a quagmire for the fanbois

If you wanted to race your ITR in a class that required a cage, and in order to install the cage you had to cut out some of your special structure to make the car BETTER, would it not really be an ITR anymore? And can i buy it for $5k now that it doesnt have its special structure?
Jan. 22, 2010 9:35 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

Vigo wrote:

That body style of Celica sure does look awesome with the right pieces on it. It also looks really lame with NOTHING on it. I guess its one of the few cars that i think NEEDS a bodykit of some kind.

That car seems to be all stock with the possible exception being the wheels... Celicas were so much cooler overseas, which is probably why mine looks the way it does.
Jan. 22, 2010 10:51 a.m. digdug18 Reader

Vigo wrote:

So here's a quagmire for the fanbois

If you wanted to race your ITR in a class that required a cage, and in order to install the cage you had to cut out some of your special structure to make the car BETTER, would it not really be an ITR anymore? And can i buy it for $5k now that it doesnt have its special structure?

To install a cage in an ITR you don't have to cut out any of the "special structure". And even if the car had been stolen and stripped it would still be an ITR.

Andrew
Jan. 22, 2010 5:07 p.m. Vigo Reader

Oh poop you're no fun! You're supposed to respond to sarcasm with other sarcasm!
Jan. 22, 2010 5:11 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

Seriously... he's got a turbo dodge Dynasty or whatever that thing is... how serious can he be?!?!?!?!

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