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Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
9/17/09 10:34 a.m.

Oil pan on my rescued MR2 was leaking onto the flex pipe, resulting in smoke after shutdown. Pretty typical issue. Toyota uses form-in-place gasket, AKA goop, to seal their oil pans.

Long story shortened, I couldn't find any Toyota FIPG or Hondabond, so I decided to use the Permatex stuff.

I cleaned both the pan and flanges. There were no traces of the old FIPG, or oily residue. I used a rag and brake cleaner.

I ran a bead arrund the oilpan as specified, put it all back together and let it cure (without oil in the pan) for 24 hours.

Filled the car up, took it for a 5 mile test drive and came back to find that a little leak had become a big one. Damn.

Here's where it gets bad. The stuff never cured. It was as tacky as 5 minutes after I put it on. The oil pickup was 2/3 covered in RTV Curds. There are RTV curds visible under the valve cover, so some of this crap made it past the screen. GRR.

Cleaned it out as good as possible and redid it with FIPG. Now it doesn't leak through the oil pan, but the rear main is leaking profusely. >:(

I'm afraid that an RTV curd jammed up my oil pressure relief valve and overpressurized the oil system. Next step is to hook up an oil pressure gauge, rather than just an idiot light.

I'm sure it was just a 'bad tube' of RTV.

/rant

slowcamaro
slowcamaro New Reader
9/17/09 12:02 p.m.

As far as parts store off the shelf 'rtv' goes 'right stuff' is pretty good. Its pricey, but it works.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
9/17/09 12:12 p.m.

Sounds like you used a bit too much there. I've had excellent results with Ultra Black. I dunno what you did to it. What I do is put a bead on the pan, put the pan on the block, put the bolts in and just snug them some, then come back the next day and tighten them down. It is weird that it never cured, though. I had some blue that did that to me. Had to scrape it all off and start over.

You did replace the filter, right?

alfadriver
alfadriver HalfDork
9/17/09 1:34 p.m.

When I use the RTV, I also put a 1mm bead down prior to what Doc does. Works like a charm- especially since very little of it really squeezes out.

Although, I've also done a 20 min cure, so that it will partially set, then squeeze tight.

E

HiTempguy
HiTempguy Reader
9/17/09 1:41 p.m.
I ran a bead arrund the oilpan as specified, put it all back together and let it cure (without oil in the pan) for 24 hours

Fail (look at what I bolded). This is a gasket MAKER, not glue or a "sealant". You run the bead, let it cure for an hour or two (it still is a little sticky at this point, but its not really liquidy like it is originally), then reassemble. I also do not agree about "using too much" within reason. On my Sprint/Swift/Firefly pans I use the permalex red stuff, and run a nice 6mm bead all the way around and circle the bolt holes. Never have problems.

xci_ed6
xci_ed6 HalfDork
9/17/09 1:43 p.m.

I use ultra grey, it's the same as Honda's ultra flange, which is what Honda specs for oil pans.

bigwrench
bigwrench Reader
9/17/09 1:55 p.m.

Valco sealents work very well. See them on www.bigwrenchracing.com. UTI training Institute is now using our sealent in the engine building classes. Silicone needs to sit a few minutes before assembly so humidity can help it set up. Also Hylomar works great and is super on gear lube and oil.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
9/17/09 1:59 p.m.

OR use anaerobic sealant.

Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
9/17/09 2:01 p.m.

I don't think I used too much. I put a 5mm bead, 5mm from the edge of the pan and around the back of the bolt holes, as specified in the BGB.

I've done several of these, as this is my 12th (or maybe 13th..) MR2. :)

When you snug the bolts on the pan, you end up with a small seam of sealant exposed on the external and internal edges of the pan, just like it came from the factory. Normally, this stuff doesn't separate and stays put.

I just got a bad tube. It won't cure. I went back and put a bead of the stuff on two pieces of scrap 2 days ago, and it is still about the consistency of tar.

I guess I can go get my $3 back. I've had good luck with Permatex in the past. Who knows how long it had been on the shelf? Maybe it got cooked or frozen or came from a bad batch, etc.

It just goes to show that preventative maintenance can turn into provocative maintenance.

Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
9/17/09 2:02 p.m.

BTW...I did replace the oil filter. Any suggestions on next steps? Since the stuff didn't cure, I wonder if it dissolves in Seafoam.

I really don't want to pull the engine and replace the oil pump and rear main seal.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
9/17/09 2:08 p.m.

I've never been a fan of the red, black or blue. I use the gray stuff. The absolute best silly rubber I have ever used was sold by Isuzu, it came in plain white tubes. I wish I could still get it.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku New Reader
9/17/09 2:59 p.m.

+1 on right stuff

motomoron
motomoron Reader
9/17/09 3:02 p.m.

When I ordered top end gaskets when I did the cylinder studs on my Ducati 900SS I found that most of the little ones had superceded to a tube of Henkel-Loctite 518 anerobic red goo. I use it or Yamabond (threebond) grey semi-hardening all the time. I do keep the spray-on Permetex paper gasket primer stuff and good old aviation Permatex on hand. BTW, that aviation Permatex is some fine smellin' stuff.

RexSeven
RexSeven Dork
9/17/09 3:26 p.m.
Tyler H wrote: BTW...I did replace the oil filter. Any suggestions on next steps? Since the stuff didn't cure, I wonder if it dissolves in Seafoam. I really don't want to pull the engine and replace the oil pump and rear main seal.

Permatex makes a gasket-removal goop that makes it easier to scrape the old stuff off. Worked on my thermostat housing. It smells nice, too.

Gearheadotaku wrote: +1 on right stuff

+2 for Right Stuff.

SupraWes
SupraWes Dork
9/17/09 4:31 p.m.

The GREY Permatex stuff is the correct replacement for FIPG, just for future reference.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
9/17/09 5:35 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote: Fail (look at what I bolded). This is a gasket MAKER, not glue or a "sealant". You run the bead, let it cure for an hour or two (it still is a little sticky at this point, but its not really liquidy like it is originally), then reassemble

Disagree. Read the Permatex techsheet on the stuff. He used it in exact accordance to their instructions. Your technique is correct for many other types, but not the black.

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro HalfDork
9/18/09 12:31 a.m.

Good thing my outdated engines use gaskets.

Gotta love it when manufacturers come up with a solution for a problem that never existed in the first place.

Is it possible to buy and install a proper gasket? I realise there is just sealant from the factory but a good, old-fashioned gasket may be in order.

Shawn

patgizz
patgizz Dork
9/18/09 7:49 a.m.

i've been using clear $5 a tube GE window and door Silicone II on engines for years.

i had an old engine builder tell me about it and said he had been doing it for 20+ years with no problems

geofftii2002
geofftii2002 New Reader
9/18/09 8:12 a.m.

I suppose it's a moot point by now, as everyone else has said the same thing but Ultra Grey or Right Stuff are the ones I've seen reached for the most by techs. I've been around a lot of high-dollar engine builds and those are the two most trusted. Also, less is more. A lot more. Something to ponder as you scrape goo off of your toyota oil pan. Sorry it came to tears.

Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
9/18/09 9:56 a.m.

I'm not crying about it, but the rear main seal is weeping.

What I find odd is that the oil dripping from the rear main is black, and the oil on the dipstick is clear (I just replaced it.) The gearbox oil is brand new also.

It could just be washing 19 years of crud from the bellhousing.

Toyota thoughtfully cast a drain into the bellhousing for just such an occasion.

OT, but Toyotas in general and MR2s specifically are some of the nastiest cars under the hood I've ever experienced. They seem to just get caked in dust and oil. The newest Toyota I've owned is an '01 Lexus IS, and it still applied then. I assume it still does.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
9/18/09 9:58 a.m.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

usually, no. the bolts aren't long enough to thread in with a gasket.

at least thats how it was on the mazdas i dealt with

benzbaron
benzbaron Reader
9/18/09 4:13 p.m.

When my pops and I did the timing chain on the pickup we tried dropping the pan to get the chunks of time guide out but the damn cross member wouldn't let it out. We cleaned it up and used either grey or black RTV, let is sit for a couple days and I'll be damned if it hasn't leaked. You guys talk about a 6mm bead, hell I used a 15mm finger smeared with RTV to get the sealant where it needed to go.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
9/18/09 5:37 p.m.

I think I have used just about all of the permatex variants. They really are a great line of products.

For the MR2's oil pans I always use Permatex Ultra Copper.

Ohya read the directions. Some say assemble immediately while others want you to wait. I have screwed this up more than I care to admit.

Metro Man
Metro Man New Reader
11/14/15 8:07 p.m.

Sorry to be responding to a 6 year old thread, but it came up during a search, and this may help others.

Like silicone calk, silicone RTV sealants/gasket makers such as Permatex Ultra Black or Ultra Grey have a limited shelf life. If too old they will never cure (will stay soft). I talked to a technical person at Permatex who said that after about 3 years even an unopened tube becomes marginal.

You can decode the Permatex date code at the bottom of a tube as follows. The first character is a number, which is the last digit of the year of manufacture. The second digit is a letter which corresponds to the month of manufacture, starting with A = Jan, B = Feb, C = March, D = April, etc. For example, I just bought a tube of Permatex Ultra Grey RTV Silicone Gasket Maker at Walmart which has code: 5HZ2310. The leading "5" says year 2015, the letter "H" indicates the month of August. So this tube was manufactured August of 2015, just 3 months ago. It should be good. Make sure to look at this date code to be sure you don't get an old tube from the back of the rack.

You can test your tube by just squeezing a small amount onto some paper or something and leave it exposed to air for a day. If it is still soft after 24 hours, throw the tube away. This goes for caulk too.

Hope this was helpful.

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
11/14/15 9:24 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: When I use the RTV, I also put a 1mm bead down prior to what Doc does. Works like a charm- especially since very little of it really squeezes out. Although, I've also done a 20 min cure, so that it will partially set, then squeeze tight. E

That's what I do. Let it 'skin over' before mating the parts. Never let me down either. It does sound like too much was used.

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