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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » How to help convince insurance co. to not total a car?

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July 20, 2011 9:06 p.m. procainestart Dork

What can you do to help convince your insurance company not to total out your old but very nice car?

A friend's 1994 Saab 9000 Aero was hit in the left rear quarter; it was in a parking lot so the damage is limited to the quarter panel. The car has 310k miles on it but is TOTALLY MINT (except hood needs a re-spray).

So this is a somewhat rare car, tough to replace, and the insurance company wants to total it. I can see why they might want to do that: to them it's an old, high-mileage, odd-ball Swedish POS. He's assembling all receipts of all the stuff he's paid for over the past couple years to help his case, but is there anything else he can do to help them decide to fix the car? They are trying to base value on similar cars sold in our area over the past 90 days but they found only a single car.

It looks like this, and hauls ass:
July 20, 2011 9:08 p.m. Grtechguy SuperDork

Let them total it, buy it back, and keep driving it?
July 20, 2011 9:22 p.m. Taiden HalfDork

I have never had to deal with insurance companies before, but I always hear tales of people getting their insurance money, 'buying back' their car (pennies on the dollar?) and then dumping the extra money back into it. I have no idea if this actually happens, but I've heard this urban legend multiple times.
July 20, 2011 9:36 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

I almost bought back my old Tiburon.. but decided to take the cash and get my Ti instead.

if all that 9000 got was a nasty tap to the rear while parked... it should not be hard to fix. Maybe get a few quotes outside of what the insurance company is offering?
July 20, 2011 9:51 p.m. Nitroracer SuperDork

Taiden wrote:

I have never had to deal with insurance companies before, but I always hear tails of people getting their insurance money, 'buying back' their car (pennies on the dollar?) and then dumping the extra money back into it. I have no idea if this actually happens, but I've heard this urban legend multiple times.

I bought back my 03' Focus SVT that was deemed a total for $600. They appraised it at over $8k.

A friend of mine just had his 94' Prelude totalled, it was in much worse shape than my Focus. He bought it back for ~$400 and had it appraised at $3400.

If the damage isn't too serious let them total it, fix it, and go for a reconstructed title. In Pennsylvania it was just a more serious 1-time inspection and you had a legal car again.
July 20, 2011 9:51 p.m. eebasist New Reader

Pics of the damage would help, but I'll just guess that the quarter panel needs replacement. This will be the death blow for the car from an insurance standpoint. The labor involved in the repair and painting will be more than what they think the car is worth.

At 300K miles book value and any comparables for condition will be few and far between.

Your best option is to find comparables, if there is only 1 in the area you need to expand your search to get a value. This is where you need to haggle, to get the most for the car, and a minimum amount for the buy back from the insurance company if you really like it and want to still repair it yourself.
July 20, 2011 10:25 p.m. Taiden HalfDork

I mean, if it's all cosmetic, just get a stud welder and a slide hammer and re-destroy (undestroy?) the quater panel and drive it like you stole it. That is, after you buy it back for $200!

That begs the question, is that only $200 out of $2012?
July 20, 2011 11:18 p.m. flountown Reader

First, make sure you take it to a shop you trust, and won't sell it out from under you. Once the insurance company get's wrecker quotes, you pay them the average of those.

I think that's how it works, it has always been easy for me, as my Dad works at a body shop and I have driven a few insurance totals that he bought dirt cheap.
July 21, 2011 5:42 a.m. Wally SuperDork

Can you get naked pictures of the adjuster, his wife, or Flo from Progressive? The first two may help your case, the third you can forward to me.

Or you could ask what the buy back is and they should deduct it from your check and leave the car with you.
July 21, 2011 7:42 a.m. dean1484 SuperDork

Creepers I just search Ebay and there was exactly ONE saab 9000. I did not realise that those were so rare.

How much is the insurance willing to pay? I found a 95 CSE with 68K and they want just south of 8k for it.

The other thing to look at is can you actually get the sheet metal to fix it. That may be the real reason why they are totalling it.

Also your friend needs to be realistic and understand that the average person looking at a saab with 300K would pay for it. It is not what i is worth to him it is only worth what others will pay for it. You need to somehow prove that the value of he car is higher so that the repair cost does not exceed the preset percentage of the value of the car. In MA I think it is %75 of the fair market value of he vehicle (I could be wrong on this)

But ya talk up the value pay pennies on the dollar t by it back fix it and have $$$$$ in your pocket. As long as they don't mind a salvage title go for it. I have done to 2-3x and always made money but it was only on cars I intended to drive in to the ground as resale of a salvage title cars is very poor.
July 21, 2011 7:50 a.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

How do you "buy it back"? Does the insurance co offer that as an option?
July 21, 2011 8:20 a.m. Ranger50 Dork

You can offer to buy it back when you talk to them, but you have to say you want it back. Or the Ins co. will assume you don't want it and come and get it, especially before they cut your check.
July 21, 2011 9:06 a.m. triumph5 SuperDork

Have it valued by one of the guys who work for Hagerty and other such companies? It'll cost money up front for the assesment, but it he really wants it, and wants the ins co to pay for the repair, it might be a way to go. Or, as Ranger 50 pointed out, have him tell them he wants it back.

BTW, any ripples--even small ones--in the front of the vehicle, ie, twisted unibody? Sometimes it doesn't take much to do this.
July 21, 2011 9:18 a.m. pigeon Dork

I took a hard rear hit in a 9000CSE (non turbo ) and the rear end bent down just behind the rear doors - the rear bumper wound up moving down probably 3 inches from where it started. Insurance barely didn't total it, and I sold it for what I had paid 2 years earlier and pocketed the insurance money. It still drove just fine. Those are tough cars.
July 21, 2011 9:44 a.m. Klayfish HalfDork

As many of you know, this is what I do for a living. How much was the repair estimate? A car like this is a little harder to get a value on than a run of the mill Accord, but the insurance company will use the resources they have. That's usually an outsource firm who specializes in auto evaluations. They'll also consider comparables too. If the estimate to repair is higher than the cars value (and while we may like the car, it would be hard to argue that it's a "collector" car that has unusually high value), you have a few choices.

First, let them total the car and get paid for its' full cash value. Receipts for maintenance, etc…always help increase the cars' value.

Other option is to retain salvage. They may require your friend to flip the title to a salvage title prior to them paying out. They'll pay the cash value less whatever they deem the salvage value would have been. For a car like that, I'd guess salvage auction value would be $700, give or take. Whether they require the title to be flipped depends on the state and the adjuster.
July 21, 2011 9:52 a.m. ppddppdd Reader

My insurance company lets certain body shops (their "preferred" locations) do the estimates. When my Miata was hit, the owner of the preferred local body shop asked if I wanted the car saved or totaled. He'd write up the estimate to favor what I wanted. I said I'd like it saved if possible.

They came back with a $4300 repair estimate, with the implication that once they started work they might "find" more damage and at that point the insurance company would probably elect to continue repairing it since they'd have already sunk a bunch into the repair. At that point I told him "Uh, that's just way too much to dump into a 1990 Miata...especially since that implies they'd write me a ~$6K check for the car" and he revised the estimate even higher to get it totaled for me.

Definitely a bit more shady than I'm comfortable with, but I'd try to find a shop that will play this game a bit.
July 21, 2011 9:53 a.m. ReverendDexter SuperDork

When my AE86 SR5 got tapped, it ended up getting totaled.

I went round and round with the insurance company, first because they didn't get that it was a RWD Corolla and were using FWD car prices, then because apparently in California, an insurance company can total out a car if the damage meets or exceed 75% of the value of the car.

In the end, they totaled it, asked if I wanted to keep the car, and I "bought" it out of my settlement for $100. I had to go down to the DMV and do a VIN check then get a brake-and-lamp inspection, and then I got a new title for it. I might've had to trade in my old plates, too... I forget.
July 21, 2011 10:27 a.m. procainestart Dork

In reply to Klayfish:

The repair estimate is $2,200; the adjusted value of the car, based on a single (non-Aero) 9000 found for sale locally, is $2,800. The estimate was done by a shop referred by our favorite local Saab indy, so he wasn't steered there by the insurance company.

I talked to him and he's resigned to the fact that they'll likely total it. If they do, he'll buy it back, then either fix or part it.

Too bad "rare" doesn't always mean "valuable."
July 21, 2011 10:41 a.m. dj06482 HalfDork

Sometimes it's easier to settle for a damage amount that's just under the total amount. I had a friend who's E30 ix was totaled because he hit a deer, and he wishes he hadn't taken the full total money. The reconstructed title can be a pain (especially here in CT), as they do a full inspection of the car and will fail it for any leak.
July 21, 2011 10:59 a.m. Datsun1500 Dork

procainestart wrote:

Too bad "rare" doesn't always mean "valuable."

Most "rare" cars don't have 300,000 miles on them, that is the biggest issue with this one.

and "mint shape except the hood needs a total respray" sounds like a CL ad we would laugh at..
July 21, 2011 11:22 a.m. racerdave600 Dork

I've been down this road a couple of times. First, it can be very difficult to have them NOT total a car when it meets their standards for a total. If it is a rare car, you might can request a valuation by an expert if they agree, and which I had to do. It wasn't cheap as I had to pay a portion of the cost since I insisted, but it did help in the end get a correct value. They totalled it anyway in the end, but the settlement price was much, much higher had I not done that. By the way, that was USAA, the most difficult insurance company I have ever personally delt with, what a pain. It took almost a year to get paid from them, and I almost had to take them to court to do so, but that's another story.

Back to the question. On both counts I bought the car back. usually you can just request a buy back number, and they will provide that. In most cases it is next to nothing. In the case of my Porsche, it was $500, the MR2 was $150. In Alabama in order to recommision a rebuilt wreck, you have to have a rebuilder's license, not expensive, and then have a reinspect done before a branded title is issued.
July 21, 2011 11:31 a.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

Not sure where you live, but in some states, even if they do declare it totaled and you buy it back, you may not get stuck with a salvage title. In Georgia, for example, the law says you only get a salvage title if you have to replace a certain amount of the car's structure to put it back on the road.
July 21, 2011 11:39 a.m. docwyte Reader

My Audi S4 got totaled. I had to argue a little with my Ins Co (USAA) as they were using the sedan as comps and not the wagon, which is worth quite a bit more.

We came to an equitable amount pretty quickly and I bought the car back for $2500 from them and parted it out. I had lots of aftermarket parts on the car that they weren't going to pay for, so getting the car back was by far the best choice financially.
July 21, 2011 12:26 p.m. Klayfish HalfDork

procainestart wrote:

In reply to Klayfish:

The repair estimate is $2,200; the adjusted value of the car, based on a single (non-Aero) 9000 found for sale locally, is $2,800. The estimate was done by a shop referred by our favorite local Saab indy, so he wasn't steered there by the insurance company.

I talked to him and he's resigned to the fact that they'll likely total it. If they do, he'll buy it back, then either fix or part it.

Too bad "rare" doesn't always mean "valuable."

That would be considered a "constructive" total loss. In the eyes of the insurance company, the repair costs (which include any hidden damage found and cost of a rental car while repairs are being done) would be higher than totalling it and getting a few bucks back in salvage. But it's close, it's not way beyond the point of being reasonably repaired. Here's what I'd recommend.

Ask the shop if they're confident their estimate is pretty much all the damage there is. Also ask your friend if they can make alternate arrangements for transportation instead of using a full price rental. If so, you may be able to do a contracted repair. Basically, it's where the shop will agree to repair the car for the $2200 initial estimate (or maybe $2300) and not ask for any supplements. Also, your friend would ask for little or no money for a rental car. That way, the insurance company can financially justify repairing the car instead of totalling it. Contract repairs aren't done all that often, but they do happen.
July 21, 2011 1:07 p.m. procainestart Dork

In reply to Klayfish:

In reply to Klayfish:

Thanks for the info, Klayfish -- I'll forward it along to my buddy, and I am sending you a virtual beer for taking the time.

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