HPDE crash holy crap zomg-Page 2: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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Aug. 9, 2009 3:48 p.m. wbjones New Reader

fiat22turbo wrote:

To be honest the NSX and the G35 owner should known better than to stage there, reguardless of what the officials think. It is only a calculated risk if you actually do the calculations.

I've done a number of HPDE's and the only I've felt unsafe was when I made a mistake on the track. The course officials may or may not know what they are doing, they are usually volunteers and ultimately you have to make safety decisions for yourself.

All but one of my track days have been with TrackDaze© and the safety level and concern has to be seen to be believed

the only other track day was a SCCA event at Rockingham and while it wasn't unsafe I felt a little intimidated since it was my first time as an intermediate (running with the advance drivers , because of small run groups) and several of the drivers were SM drivers practicing for the race the next day, and were accustomed to passing any where with no point by.... made for some interesting mirror watching in my under powered CRX
Aug. 9, 2009 3:55 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

can someone re-host or give an explanation of what the streetfire video shows, all i get is a "server is too busy" message.
Aug. 9, 2009 4:29 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

From the incar cam of the second car we see two guys/cars staged at the end of pit row waiting to enter the track. Cars are zooming by about 20ft away to the left. The first car is a G35 and apparently offscreen to his right is a NSX. The driver of the G35 and NSX are milling about talking a semi paying attention to the track. Several minutes go by with the G35 driver in and out of his vehicle conversing with the NSX driver who is standing on the driverside(trackside) of the G35. At one point the G35 driver is seated in his vehicle and the NSX driver is standing by the left front headlight of the G35. Loud tire squealing makes the NSX driver look at the track and then sprint off to the right as an EVO slams into the G35 knocking everything to mush. The impact was: EVO passenger side flush impact with G35 driver side, and then apparently the whole mess slammed into the NSX. All drivers were walking about after the wreck looking unharmed.
Aug. 9, 2009 4:34 p.m. walterj Dork

This was a PDA event. The PDA were mostly a club of guys with pretty awesome cars who wanted to drive without all the bother of rules. They were frustrating to run with because they were not all skilled drivers but they were pretty loaded up with ego. Not everybody - but you could pretty much guarantee that every run group was going to end in a train behind the most arrogant guy. I always got the impression that it was a cool group in the beginning (like Group52) but got sloppy over time until it was just too stupid to live.

They were absorbed or partnered with NASA shortly after this incident and now have all of the same safety guidelines in place. I instructed with them right after NASA ran the flag up the pole and it was really awkward - The first student I had with them was driving an 80s Camaro with 500HP and broken seat belt adjusters. These guys in Ferraris, 800HP Craftsman trucks and all manner of insanity had never had an instructor and sure as E36 M3 didn't want one. I swore I would never do that again but I have gone out to lend a hand a few times since... the guys in charge are cool and it seems like the shiny happy person element has moved on. It is pretty much business as usual NASA now.
Aug. 10, 2009 12:11 a.m. boxedfox New Reader

While there were issues with the way they were staging on East Course, I think it's worth mentioning that the driver of the Evo and the driver of the Audi were a few steps higher on the ego ladder than the usual PDA entrant. This particular incident started as a result of the Evo guy dropping two wheels off of a corner where the surface is 4" off of the dirt - and thinking he could wrench it back on the track. His friend in the Audi had actually done something similar earlier in the day. He was just lucky enough not to go careening into something hard when he lost it coming off of the back straight.

Subsequently, the same Audi driver attended another event at Watkins Glen where he attempted to refuse instruction before being banned for reckless on-track behavior. Banned, that is, from nearly every club in the Northeast & Mid-Atlantic regions.

I do tend to agree that the club used to attract individuals with a very high money to brains ratio. However, I think we need to remember that these hapless egomaniacs could show up any event, whether it be a HPDE, AutoX, road rally, etc. Avoiding any one club or type of event won't guarantee any level of safety. Instead, I would encourage drivers to cover themselves, stay alert, and tell someone the moment they see unsafe behavior. I have yet to see an event official turn a deaf ear to information about a potentially dangerous situation.
Aug. 10, 2009 11:09 a.m. Fosters Reader

boxedfox wrote:

While there were issues with the way they were staging on East Course, I think it's worth mentioning that the driver of the Evo and the driver of the Audi were a few steps higher on the ego ladder than the usual PDA entrant. This particular incident started as a result of the Evo guy dropping two wheels off of a corner where the surface is 4" off of the dirt - and thinking he could wrench it back on the track. His friend in the Audi had actually done something similar earlier in the day. He was just lucky enough not to go careening into something hard when he lost it coming off of the back straight.

Subsequently, the same Audi driver attended another event at Watkins Glen where he attempted to refuse instruction before being banned for reckless on-track behavior. Banned, that is, from nearly every club in the Northeast & Mid-Atlantic regions.

I do tend to agree that the club used to attract individuals with a very high money to brains ratio. However, I think we need to remember that these hapless egomaniacs could show up any event, whether it be a HPDE, AutoX, road rally, etc. Avoiding any one club or type of event won't guarantee any level of safety. Instead, I would encourage drivers to cover themselves, stay alert, and tell someone the moment they see unsafe behavior. I have yet to see an event official turn a deaf ear to information about a potentially dangerous situation.

I've heard the same information.

The date on the uTube video is actually incorrect, if I remember correctly. The SE-R guys ran with a 2 day PDA Event, and we ran on the 5th - the incident occurred on the 6th (while we were not there).

The guy in the Audi (filming from on-track) was a giant a*s. He ran with us on Friday, and he was very immature - plus he covered almost the entire front & side of his car with blue painter's tape (tough to forget that).

A bad situation for staging, but many things came into play on that one. Brings back memories though.

Josh