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May 26, 2009 9:33 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Strizzo wrote:

maroon92 wrote:

well unfortunately, that chassis is over 10 years old now. they havn't taken steps backward with the focus...they just havn't taken any steps....

this was exactly my point in my post above. ford skipped platform updates on the focus and passed on the mondeo saying they couldn't sell them profitably in the US, all the while Mazda was selling the crap out of the mazda6 and mazda3.

Might want to check your numbers- the 3 and 6 never outsold the Ford counterparts. And neither are all that profitable, either, since Mazda doesn't really knock the ball out of the park in terms of proftiability.

And it's kinda ironic that you theorize that the 6 was a winner when Ford passed on the Mondeo chassis for the 6 based Fusion/Milan/MKZ...

The public goal IS to commonize the platform across the world. Why the Focus was not the first? No idea. But It is coming.

Eric
May 26, 2009 10:41 a.m. Wally UberDork

John Brown wrote: It seems that every Scot out there hates everything.

That's because if it's not Scotish it's Crap
May 26, 2009 11:57 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Wally wrote:

John Brown wrote: It seems that every Scot out there hates everything.

That's because if it's not Scotish it's Crrrrrrap

Gotta roll the R.
May 26, 2009 1:09 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Wally wrote:

John Brown wrote: It seems that every Scot out there hates everything.

That's because if it's not Scotish it's Crap

I see I'm not the only one who fruitlessly searched for that video.
May 26, 2009 4:26 p.m. Strizzo Dork

Strizzo wrote:

maroon92 wrote:

well unfortunately, that chassis is over 10 years old now. they havn't taken steps backward with the focus...they just havn't taken any steps....

this was exactly my point in my post above. ford skipped platform updates on the focus and passed on the mondeo saying they couldn't sell them profitably in the US, all the while Mazda was selling the crap out of the mazda6 and mazda3.

Might want to check your numbers- the 3 and 6 never outsold the Ford counterparts. And neither are all that profitable, either, since Mazda doesn't really knock the ball out of the park in terms of proftiability.

they didn't do fleet sales, and they also never had to give crazy incentives just to move them off the lots. how is ford's profitability lately, btw?

And it's kinda ironic that you theorize that the 6 was a winner when Ford passed on the Mondeo chassis for the 6 based Fusion/Milan/MKZ...

i thought the 6 chassis was the mondeo chassis? no?

The public goal IS to commonize the platform across the world. Why the Focus was not the first? No idea. But It is coming.

Eric

the focus WAS the first (same across the globe), then they decided to skip a few platform updates and just re-skin or slightly change it a few times.

completely unrelated to this discussion: is there way to get the sync system to not make 80's video game sounds every time you start the car? i like what it does and how it does it, just those sounds don't fit in when you're sitting in something like the mustang. (great job on that, btw, give me an ecoboost 'stang at the current GT pricepoint and i'll buy one.)
May 26, 2009 8:44 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Strizzo wrote:

Strizzo wrote:

maroon92 wrote:

well unfortunately, that chassis is over 10 years old now. they havn't taken steps backward with the focus...they just havn't taken any steps....

this was exactly my point in my post above. ford skipped platform updates on the focus and passed on the mondeo saying they couldn't sell them profitably in the US, all the while Mazda was selling the crap out of the mazda6 and mazda3.

Might want to check your numbers- the 3 and 6 never outsold the Ford counterparts. And neither are all that profitable, either, since Mazda doesn't really knock the ball out of the park in terms of proftiability.

they didn't do fleet sales, and they also never had to give crazy incentives just to move them off the lots. how is ford's profitability lately, btw?

better than Mazda's. And we don't sell to fleets like we used to. Common excuse, though. Even with fleet sales, the Focus outsells the 3 and the Fusion (w/o the Milan) outsells the 6. Oh, and Mazda sells to fleets too. And have crazy incentives- have you been to a dealer lately? They are practiaclly giving Miata's away.

And it's kinda ironic that you theorize that the 6 was a winner when Ford passed on the Mondeo chassis for the 6 based Fusion/Milan/MKZ...

i thought the 6 chassis was the mondeo chassis? no?
Nope. The Fusion/Milan/MKZ is based off the 6. Mondeo chassis is going away. Oh, and much of Mazda 6's development happens in the US, done by fellow Ford Employees. As is the CX9.

The public goal IS to commonize the platform across the world. Why the Focus was not the first? No idea. But It is coming.

Eric

the focus WAS the first (same across the globe), then they decided to skip a few platform updates and just re-skin or slightly change it a few times.

completely unrelated to this discussion: is there way to get the sync system to not make 80's video game sounds every time you start the car? i like what it does and how it does it, just those sounds don't fit in when you're sitting in something like the mustang. (great job on that, btw, give me an ecoboost 'stang at the current GT pricepoint and i'll buy one.)

It's still funny how people love to pan he current Focus. It's still a fine car. But it's "cool" to make fun of it, right?

No idea on how to update sync, but I do know that updates are available from the dealer.

I kinda bet that a Ecoboost 'stang wont happen, and if it does, no way it will be as cheap as the GT. DI and turbos are expensive. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.
May 26, 2009 9:20 p.m. Osterkraut Dork

alfadriver wrote:

And have crazy incentives- have you been to a dealer lately? They are practiaclly giving Miata's away.

Tell me more...
May 27, 2009 5:50 a.m. ignorant PowerDork

I've never been a fan of the mazda 6 and I think its just been positioned poorly. The car has never found the right market and hasn't sold well.

I liked the CX7 we drove, but the wife thought the steering, brakes and gas were too twitchy. Go figure.
May 27, 2009 6:31 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Osterkraut wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

And have crazy incentives- have you been to a dealer lately? They are practiaclly giving Miata's away.

Tell me more...

When I stopped by the dealer, there was a $5k incentive on it. Granted, it was a 2008 model. But holy cow.

The price I would have gotten was within $100 of what I paid for my '99 back when it was new. Stunning.
May 27, 2009 8:17 a.m. Tom_Spangler New Reader

alfadriver wrote: It's still funny how people love to pan he current Focus. It's still a fine car. But it's "cool" to make fun of it, right?

Eric, I'll chime in on this one. Yes, the Focus is a perfectly decent small car. But it's not the enthusiast car it was in the early 2000s. There's no SVT version, even the ST has gone away. Also, a big negative for me is that the hatchbacks went away, I'm a big fan of hatches. I realize they must not have sold well or they'd still be around, but it was nice when there were 4 different body styles to choose from. I also don't care for the styling of the current car as much as I did the older ones. Yes, it's selling well, but it also had the good fortune to come out with a refresh just as gas was shooting up last year. And Sync helps, too. Bottom line, I think enthusiasts like to bash the current Focus because it used to be a great enthusiast car and now it's kind of a bland-mobile.

My understanding is that the Mondeo platform is going away because it's too expensive to manufacture, not because the Fusion/6 platform is inherently better. No?
May 27, 2009 8:23 a.m. Adrian_Thompson New Reader

Tom_Spangler wrote:

My understanding is that the Mondeo platform is going away because it's too expensive to manufacture, not because the Fusion/6 platform is inherently better. No?

Tom you should know better. We've just launched the revised CD3 (Fusion, Milan, MK Z) and it's a great car.

The next CD platform will also include the Mondeo. It's not that one platform will grow to encompass the other, it's a NEW global platform that will be the basis for the Fusion, Milan, MK Z and Mondeo.
May 27, 2009 8:26 a.m. Adrian_Thompson New Reader

alfadriver wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

And have crazy incentives- have you been to a dealer lately? They are practiaclly giving Miata's away.

Tell me more...

When I stopped by the dealer, there was a $5k incentive on it. Granted, it was a 2008 model. But holy cow.

The price I would have gotten was within $100 of what I paid for my '99 back when it was new. Stunning.

If Tom is still around a co worker of his recently walked out of the dealer with an 08 PRHT model for $20k, that was a car with a $30k sticker.
May 27, 2009 9:25 a.m. Tom_Spangler New Reader

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Tom you should know better. We've just launched the revised CD3 (Fusion, Milan, MK Z) and it's a great car.

I didn't say it wasn't. just that the current Mondeo costs more to make. I think they are both really good platforms.

And yes, one of my friends did just get a loaded power-hardtop 08 MX-5 for about $20k. He's a Ford employee, but he didn't even use S-plan, he got a better deal without it.
May 27, 2009 9:02 p.m. Wowak Dork

At a time when Ford is remaining solvent while GM and Chrysler accept huge government bailouts then declare bankruptcy ANYWAY, you're going to have a really hard time getting me to be disappointed in Ford.

As of right now, Ford is the only domestic brand I will ever consider buying a new vehicle from ever again, for the rest of my life. Hopefully they can keep it that way. And depriving me of one cool european model that isn't necessarily going to help them stay solvent will NOT change my mind.
May 27, 2009 9:07 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

I think that if you give Americans (prounounced "MARE-uh-kinz!") the choice between spending $30k for a Focus RS or $40k for a Taurus SHO, the majority would take the SHO.

Somehow that's relevant to this conversation, I swear it.
May 27, 2009 11:04 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

americans aren't willing to pay premium money for premium small cars. How well does Audi's A3 sell here? that is an expensive Golf.

with the RS you don't get alot (size) of car for the money, but the SHO is nearly a full sized vehicle (in my mind anyway)
May 28, 2009 7:45 a.m. Strizzo Dork

Eric, re: ecoboost being expensive

Mazda is doing it with the ms3 and selling more than they probably ever thought they would. And prices start at 22k. same with gm and the turbo cobalt
May 28, 2009 8:41 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Strizzo wrote:

Eric, re: ecoboost being expensive

Mazda is doing it with the ms3 and selling more than they probably ever thought they would. And prices start at 22k. same with gm and the turbo cobalt

For one thing, the turbo cobalt doesn't count- it's not DI, just turbo. The MS3 is valid, but how much is $22 over the base price.

It is expensive. Been working on it for 4 years now- outside of the manifold and turbos, you have a high pressure fuel pump (up to 2100 psi) and high pressure injectors that live in the combustion chamber. The delta from a PFI motor isn't trivial.

Thankfully, it's a lot cheaper than diesel (sorry Ignorant... ).

Eric
May 28, 2009 8:55 a.m. Adrian_Thompson New Reader

Strizzo wrote:

Eric, re: ecoboost being expensive

Mazda is doing it with the ms3 and selling more than they probably ever thought they would. And prices start at 22k. same with gm and the turbo cobalt

Also there's a bit of a difference between a DI 4 cyl single turbo and a 6 cyl twin turbo which is what a Mustang would need. Also do you really believe the 'average' Mustang customer would except a GT with a V6 rather than a V8 no matter what the power and torque curves? Ford has proven for years that it understands the Mustang customer base better than the competition
May 28, 2009 9:22 a.m. John Brown MegaDork

I have a dream of a RWD ecoboost in a Laser Blue MX5 with silver 17x9 and 17x10.5 Enkei RPF1s.

That will take advantage of the platform quite nicely.
May 28, 2009 9:37 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

John Brown wrote:

I have a dream of a RWD ecoboost in a Laser Blue MX5 with silver 17x9 and 17x10.5 Enkei RPF1s.

That will take advantage of the platform quite nicely.

I dream of that with a Mercury badge on it....

(as do a whole lot of other people)

E-
May 28, 2009 9:45 a.m. John Brown MegaDork

Can anyone near the inside get a reference for hte bellhousing for the 3.5Ltt?

Just curious you know.
May 28, 2009 11:25 a.m. Strizzo Dork

turbo cobalt IS DI. Same engine as the turbo do sky/solstice

And once you put one turbo into an already do engine, how much more does one more turbo really cost to add?

As for people not accepting a v6 mustang gt, as long as ford doesn't pull another ago mustang and make the same power for a lot more money, it should be ok
May 28, 2009 11:51 a.m. RossD Reader

Leave the GT V8 Mustang but make different spec level of it like GTS and then put the 3.5TT in it. Hell, they sold turbo 4 cylinders in the '80s in mustangs as Turbo GT cars. People love turbos; although 'those people' might not be the mustang people of old.
May 28, 2009 12:08 p.m. pkrstr8 New Reader

I remember a 4.2 V-6 split port that was in a GT shell that ran really hard and no-where near the "push" you got in the v-8 car!

Man I miss all the toys we use to have available back in the day

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