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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » I can afford to buy a 911, but can I afford to keep it?

June 16, 2009 1:02 p.m. Winston New Reader

I was already looking at 911's when the "what makes a 911 so great?" thread popped up, followed by the "David, please show us what you got" thread/spinoff. Needless to say, I'm in full-on "future owner" mode now. But now the question is not so much can I afford to buy one, but can I afford to keep it? In other words, will maintaining the thing break me? I can do most mechanical work myself, so my original thought was yes. Parts are high (very high in some cases), but not unobtainable. As a final reality check, I just priced "the biggie" on Pelican Parts -- a full-on engine rebuild. This was basically to reassure myself that if the worst happened, I could handle it financially. Well, it did not reassure me.

$8k.

In parts.

To be fair, there's about $1k worth of tools in there, and it's basically every bottom-end replacement part Pelican offers, but I figured that with a car like a 911 it really needs to be done right and done once. Is this a case of "do your homework, have a good pre-purchase inspection done, and hope for the best?" I don't know if I could stomach dropping $15k on a car and then finding out it needs another $8k (AND I have to do the rebuild myself at that price!). I'd read on Rennlist that every ('84-'89) 911 costs $25k, you just have to decide on whether you pay it all up front (i.e. buy a gem) or pay it out over time (in repair costs). For those of you that are owners, is this true?

Thanks in advance for your help.
June 16, 2009 1:13 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

Find one with an expired air cooler.

Install Turbo Scoobydoo powerplant plus MegaSquishies.

Laugh at every pompous Porsche owner this side of the ocean as your repair costs go from HUGE to small.
June 16, 2009 1:25 p.m. Winston New Reader

John Brown wrote:

Find one with an expired air cooler.

Install Turbo Scoobydoo powerplant plus MegaSquishies.

Laugh at every pompous Porsche owner this side of the ocean as your repair costs go from HUGE to small.

I'd probably go for a 6-hole Scooby motor, but I catch your drift.

Although, to be honest, a little part of me would die if I made a mongrel out of an aircooled 911. I have a real soft spot for them that stretches back into childhood, and that engine is a big part of the personality of these cars. On most any other car I'd be the first one holding the sawzall.

Still, it's an option.
June 16, 2009 1:33 p.m. Ian F HalfDork

I don't know about the mongrel thing... IMHO, part of the allure of a 911 is the air-cooled 6... remove that and... well... why not just build a rear-engine locost?

If you price out parts to rebuild any BMW engine (especially an S-motor), you'll notice it's not much better (if any) than the P-car... Doesn't seem to stop anyone from recommending those all day long...

Beyond that, if I had to rebuild a P-car motor... I'd pay to have that done... could I do it myself? Probably... but if I'm spending that much on parts alone, I want to make sure they've been assembled by someone who knows EXACTLY what they are doing... and maybe add a few upgrades...

No... the '71 911 one of the TR6 owners at Hellertown is selling has nothing to do with these thoughts...
June 16, 2009 1:50 p.m. Rangeball Reader

Another thought. The SC is set to start the 'appreciation' swing. Finding a good gem might pay dividends in the future.

Is this going to be a daily?
June 16, 2009 2:03 p.m. Winston New Reader

Rangeball wrote: Another thought. The SC is set to start the 'appreciation' swing. Finding a good gem might pay dividends in the future.

Is this going to be a daily?

This will be a weekend car. I really want a cabriolet, so the only SC that will work for me is an '83. I'll keep my eyes peeled for one when the time comes. Still saving pennies right now.
June 16, 2009 2:10 p.m. Rangeball Reader

Winston wrote:

This will be a weekend car. I really want a cabriolet, so the only SC that will work for me is an '83. I'll keep my eyes peeled for one when the time comes. Still saving pennies right now.

Me too but my wife and the University system keep taking all the ones (pennies) I have saved so far.
June 16, 2009 2:17 p.m. wherethefmi HalfDork

Like this one, man all this porsche talk is addicting

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/1223655143.html
June 16, 2009 2:24 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork

In that worst case scenario, I would buy a complete used engine from a crashed car rather than rebuild what was there for that kind of money.

But the truth is, it woudl be rare to require that much work. And in some cases, you can use cheaper VW parts that do the same job.
June 16, 2009 2:27 p.m. Winston New Reader

wherethefmi wrote:

Like this one, man all this porsche talk is addicting

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/1223655143.html

That is a great price for a 993 with only 74k, too bad it's tiptronic.
June 16, 2009 3:08 p.m. RossD Reader

$23k can get you a '99 C4 with a 6 speed.
June 16, 2009 3:25 p.m. Winston New Reader

RossD wrote: $23k can get you a '99 C4 with a 6 speed.

There's a reason for that. I'm only interested in '83-'98 (911 thru 993 models).
June 16, 2009 4:01 p.m. Carrera30 New Reader

I'm seeing more and more good cars for reasonable prices. When people need money, you'd be suprised how much they'll let thier car go for. I bought mine 2-3 years ago and scored it for less than $10K - about $6K less than the asking price. The guy had the car, a truck, a camper and a boat all for sale, so it was clear he needed cash. My offer was rediculously low, but knowing that he needed $$$, deal done!

It has low miles and needs some cosmetics (no rust, but a sub-par re-spray at some point - still a good 10 footer though), but mechanically she's pretty sound and just needed a tune-up. I'll have to do some transmission work eventually as the 1st - 2nd synchro is crunchy at anything over 4000 RPM, but for the money I paid, I really can't complain.

You have to remember that the 3.0 and 3.2 models were sort of overbuilt because of the stud pulling problems of the 2.7 litre models. There are plenty of 150K mile 3.0 litre cars out there that will go another 100K with proper preventative measure upgrades (if they aren't already done) and maintenance.

My advice would be to get something with the G50 transmission. Should be able to find some good 1987 and up cars with a G50 starting in the $15K region.
June 16, 2009 4:34 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

I debated going with the G50. Some say it doesn't quite feel like a Porsche. Others say it's the best thing in the world.

By the way, I know of a super-nice 911 Carrera down here for sale--Iris blue with navy leather, no wing, 80k or so. Asking price is $17.5, but I was told that he's flexible. Car looked brand-new. If anything, maybe that's a data point for a maximum price.
June 16, 2009 6:56 p.m. Woody SuperDork

David S. Wallens wrote:

I debated going with the G50. Some say it doesn't quite feel like a Porsche. Others say it's the best thing in the world.

By the way, I know of a super-nice 911 Carrera down here for sale--Iris blue with navy leather, no wing, 80k or so. Asking price is $17.5, but I was told that he's flexible. Car looked brand-new. If anything, maybe that's a data point for a maximum price.

What year?
June 16, 2009 7:01 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Woody wrote:

David S. Wallens wrote:

I debated going with the G50. Some say it doesn't quite feel like a Porsche. Others say it's the best thing in the world.

By the way, I know of a super-nice 911 Carrera down here for sale--Iris blue with navy leather, no wing, 80k or so. Asking price is $17.5, but I was told that he's flexible. Car looked brand-new. If anything, maybe that's a data point for a maximum price.

What year?

I want to say 1986.
June 16, 2009 7:14 p.m. Josh HalfDork

Ian F wrote:

If you price out parts to rebuild any BMW engine (especially an S-motor), you'll notice it's not much better (if any) than the P-car... Doesn't seem to stop anyone from recommending those all day long...

Yeah, but when is the last time you heard of anyone HAVING to fully rebuild one of them (with the possible exception of the S14)? It seems much more like a when, not if, proposition with a 911.
June 16, 2009 10:02 p.m. dyintorace Dork

What amazes me is that, in a quick search of crazedlist for Florida, it is quite common to see '87-'89 Carreras selling for the same price as '99 Carreras! I know the 996 is the most unloved Carrera of the modern era, but talk about taking a beating!
June 16, 2009 10:26 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Yeah, the 1999 and 2000 996s fetch much less money than the later ones. There's some deals out there.
June 17, 2009 12:55 a.m. wannabewrench New Reader

Josh wrote:

Ian F wrote:

If you price out parts to rebuild any BMW engine (especially an S-motor), you'll notice it's not much better (if any) than the P-car... Doesn't seem to stop anyone from recommending those all day long...

Yeah, but when is the last time you heard of anyone HAVING to fully rebuild one of them (with the possible exception of the S14)? It seems much more like a when, not if, proposition with a 911.

It's still an if and not when as far as an engine rebuild is concerned. The 3.0s were pretty bulletproof. The 3.2s had the valve guide issue but not all need a rebuild.
June 17, 2009 12:57 a.m. wannabewrench New Reader

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20275219@N04/3630971883/in/photostream
June 17, 2009 10:04 a.m. Ian F HalfDork

Josh wrote: Yeah, but when is the last time you heard of anyone HAVING to fully rebuild one of them (with the possible exception of the S14)? It seems much more like a when, not if, proposition with a 911.

Not from what I've heard... properly maintained, air-cooled P-engines have a rep for easily going 200K miles... I've read of more than a few doubling that.

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