I couldn't believe my ears, driving aids not invasive enough.

I heard on the radio yesterday that some of the driver nannys on new cars may not work well enough. 

The problem was they don't act fast enough to prevent rear ending someone or they don't keep you in the proper lane well enough and so on.  This was for real on a national show, I started yelling at my radio, something about learning how to drive. 

Is there no end to the safety features that we pile onto cars, features that make the cars cost more and total them after a small fender bender.   Will they ever figure out that the biggest bang for the buck is to train the person who is supposed to be in charge of driving the car.

Maybe this should be in the minor rant thread.

I get the concept of electronic nannies enticing people to not practice good driving habits, and there is certainly some degree of merit to that.  However, it's almost a chicken and egg argument.  People were driving like morons long before these nannies.  Roads are getting more crowded, our society is more "me" oriented in general and that makes for more accidents, nannies or not. 

Personally, I don't actually mind them.  I like my ABS, air bags, stability control and such.  I've even come to really like the back up camera in my G37.  I've driven cars with lane change helper and rear end avoidance.  I didn't necessarily care for them, but don't think they were terrible. 

And I consider myself a pretty damn good driver....

The main problem that I have with collision warning and lane departure systems is that when the vehicle decides that there is a dangerous situation ahead of you, it lights a light and sounds an alarm, which draws your attention, and your eyes, away from the "dangerous situation" that is located outside of your windshield. You immediate look at the flashing light on the dashboard. It's the exact opposite of what you should be doing at that point.

akylekoz said:

Will they ever figure out that the biggest bang for the buck is to train the person who is supposed to be in charge of driving the car.

Brock Yates started the Cannonball Run to prove this exact declaration.  OneLap just ran for the 35th time, heck the it's over 45 years since the first Cannonball running.

I'll guess "no"... heck, I'm pessimistic that we'll get graduated licensing after 50% of the cars go "autopilot"

re: Woody

I agree about the warning systems.  Those should be only "HUD" / Augmented-Reality based, such that they are functional enough to actually "highlight" the problem car/scenario/object.

standard caveats apply:  ymmv, imho, etc etc

I agree with akylekoz, the nannies have become crutches for people that probably shouldn't be driving in the first place. I have been driving for 40 years and although congestion definitely has an impact on the number of crashes, my experience has been that most people today simply do not put paying attention as their first priority when driving. I'm all for multitasking but if you have a steering wheel in your hands driving should come first, not fourth or fifth on your priority list. Its scary what people think is ok to do at 75 MPH. All because they believe their car will save their bacon.

In reply to imgon :

I'm actually not all for multitasking, in any instance.  It's been shown that regardless of what people think/ say, effective multi-tasking is not really a thing.  Turns out our brain is really good at doing one thing at a time.  

Where I live, using any sort of a phone/tablet/whatever is illegal while driving.  It's a primary offense.  Yet every single day not only do I see it happening, but I see it happening in such a way that it is obviously hampering the driver's ability to operate their motor vehicle.  Thus creating a dangerous situation for everybody.

Owning a brand new car now, I don't completely hate the 'e-nannies', insofar as they help the car do things better.  Look at it this way: when cars went from 4 wheel drum brakes to 4 wheel disc brakes, and tires improved, and suspension design got better, cars all stopped and steered way, way better than they used to.  ABS and traction control basically do the same thing- they help the car handle and stop better.  

But when the nannies tak control away from the driver, or allow the driver to be less involved in the driving experience- that's wherein the danger lies.

Figuring out a way to prevent electronic distraction behind the wheel and chemically-impaired driving would likely cut the number of accidents in half.  there's your biggest bang for the buck, right there.  

When the basketball team I coach travels by bus, you can easily see down into passing cars.  It’s amazing what you see people doing at 80mph on the interstate!  Far and away in the lead is phone/tablet in their lap or leaned against the wheel.

My wife and kids have heard me yell several times words to the effect of: “YOUR ONE AND ONLY JOB IS TO DRIVE, THATS IT!!!!” at people doing ANYTHING besides driving. I feel guilty and embarrassed in a way when I look at my radio when changing channels.

Where else in life can you fly around in public in a 3,000-4000 lb hunk of metal and take your eyes and mind off the task?

volvoclearinghouse said:

Owning a brand new car now, I don't completely hate the 'e-nannies', insofar as they help the car do things better.  Look at it this way: when cars went from 4 wheel drum brakes to 4 wheel disc brakes, and tires improved, and suspension design got better, cars all stopped and steered way, way better than they used to.  ABS and traction control basically do the same thing- they help the car handle and stop better.  

I bought a brand new truck this week. It has e-nannies out the wazoo and yet it still has drum brakes out back. But that's an entirely different rant.

In reply to Woody :

lemme guess, Tacoma?

In reply to Woody :

That reminds me of some of the engineering issues we run into at work, attempting to graft 21rst century technology over 20th (or, in some cases, 19th) century mechanical workings.  

We're in a tough phase and will be for another decade or two until true, well-developed autonomous cars are more of a thing.

20 years ago, driving like a moron would kill you with little warning, and most people were aware of this.  It didn't prevent moronic driving, but it helped.

20 years from now, the computers will be doing all the driving, so you're free to phone surf until you decide you need to reprogram the destination through your car's app.

It's being halfway between that is making driving difficult right now.  There are lots of tempting distractions, and cars have enough active safety features to give people an extremely false sense of security.

All valid points. 

The angle I was coming from is that people are expecting these Nannys to do more than assist in a situation.  After being sold on the safety features, they blast into someones rear end then blame the car for not functioning the way it was supposed to.  More lawyers will be involved. 

Most people don't read their owners manuals or go online to get a copy.  I assume the scope and purpose is very clearly explained on these systems.  Again it is the drivers responsibility to be in control of their vehicle and understand how its various safety systems are supposed to work in a least the level that is explained in the manual.  

i dunno. pretty sure a rumble strip once woke me up and maybe saved my life (it was only like 4 pm, but I was driving home from a day of snowboarding, and didn't realize how tired I was; I was still an idiot kid in HS). 

I'm ok with safety features. Even the best drivers in the world make mistakes (Senna, anyone?). If a feature turns that mistake from death into minor crash, I'd say that is a pretty good trade. 

Does anyone have data that even sort of says that nannies make people make more mistakes?

akylekoz said:

All valid points. 

The angle I was coming from is that people are expecting these Nannys to do more than assist in a situation.  After being sold on the safety features, they blast into someones rear end then blame the car for not functioning the way it was supposed to.  More lawyers will be involved. 

Most people don't read their owners manuals or go online to get a copy.  I assume the scope and purpose is very clearly explained on these systems.  Again it is the drivers responsibility to be in control of their vehicle and understand how its various safety systems are supposed to work in a least the level that is explained in the manual.  

you seem to be forgetting that most drivers, and people, are irresponsible luddites who view driving as a chore and technology as magic. 

Yes they "need" all their safety wizzbangs and doodads to feel safer because  everyone else is a dangerous driver. Nevermind the cellphone in one hand, latte in the other, and touch screen for their fingertips. It's everyone else that is the problem, so it's everyone else's responsibility. Not their own. 

As a vehicle enthusiast, I welcome our self driving future because it will make the roads considerably safer while I drive around in my old manually controlled junk because it's all I can afford. Lock all the "driving is a chore" people into their self driving vehicles, maybe then we'll actually go the speed limit and not need to make panic stops at every yellow light.

We had a new Lexus around the office recently that had the "lane centering" technology.  The car would constantly tug at the wheel to be sure you were in the center of the lane.  It was creepy, weird, and totally unnatural feeling.  I hated it.....until I took the ten minutes to navigate through the infotainment system to figure out how to turn the E36 M3 off.    Welcome to the world of modern cars. 

Cars will get more and more loaded with tech, until they finally become self-driving.  I guess this is a good thing for the masses, as so many of them aren't paying attention behind the wheel anyways.  At this point distracted driving is a much larger problem than drunk driving ever was.  

 I just hope the powers that be allow us to continue driving our "dumb" cars even though we are clearly a horrid danger to ourselves and others. 

I hope you like traveling at exactly the speed limit---- as autonomous cars won't speed.  That will make cross country drives take much, much longer.  (at least for terrible law-breaking people like me)  

Now get off my lawn! 

I consider myself a Very Good Driver and also have a brand-new F150 with all of Ford's latest gizmos on it. Lane keep assist, blind spot monitoring, adaptive cruise control, automatic emergency braking.

The blind spot monitoring works with a trailer up to 33' long. It makes my life easier when I tow my enclosed home from the track in the dark.

Adaptive cruise control makes DC-area traffic a non-event, I set the maximum speed to 55 and let it manage itself.

Auto emergency braking prevented me from hitting a motorcyclist earlier this year. I was already braking for a red light ahead, with the trailer hooked up. Motorcyclist cut me off in the braking zone and before my brain registered "push the pedal harder" the truck did it for me. Music cut off, loud beeps, truck and trailer stopped with zero drama and nobody was hurt. Made me a believer that day. I was paying full attention, but the truck reacted quicker than I did. 

I dunno, I still drive my truck but all the aids make it less stressful in certain scenarios and I really enjoy it for that. Now all the Tesla dingdongs who think the cars literally drive themselves... ugh.

Joe Gearin said:

I hope you like traveling at exactly the speed limit---- as autonomous cars won't speed.  That will make cross country drives take much, much longer.  (at least for terrible law-breaking people like me)  

Now get off my lawn! 

Never happen. The state and local governments will see to that. Can’t have their revenue stream cut....

I will never buy a new car. The nannies are the primary reason. 

If I was king of the world, the steering wheel would have a spike in the center, and the seat would have a taser controlled by any car within 10' you. Driving would be a painful experience unless you did it right.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Sure it will. 

They will replace the revenues generated by speeding violations with annual operating certification fees, or mileage based usage fees, or some such thing. 

Your vehicle will automatically report to the government agencies, and they will deduct the fees from your bank account, and enjoy the reduced overhead costs, since they won’t need LEOs, etc to collect the revenue. 

Government CANT WAIT for automated systems. 

In reply to SVreX :

I'm honestly surprised they haven't done more automated stuff already.  The car should be updated daily about the owners' insurance status and if it lapses, your E36 M3 just doesn't start.  I'm tired of having to carry uninsured motorist coverage, my solution would simply keep them off my roads.

I can see speeding going the same way.  We have vehicles at work that are GPS monitored and if you exceed a certain speed an email is automatically sent to your boss about it.  Same report to LEO and you get an automatic ticket mailed to you.

I can see a day where cop drones fly above highways all day long.  You speed---- the drone sees it, and a hefty ticket arrives at your door.  1984 is already here, it just took a little longer than Orwell expected.  

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :

I would much rather pay the insurance than live with the government up my ass at all times. 

We here are a special special breed that take great pride in our driving skills.  Most of society doesn't, and couldn't care less about "skill" outside of being able to get from A to B.  So while the points of people driving while distracted, etc. are obviously right and on point, stopping technology progress can't be the answer, because not every incident out there is because someone is an idiot and was texting on the phone.  Weather conditions, car conditions, legitimate mistakes by drivers, etc. can all cause accidents, and those who have done the best they can shouldn't be punished by serious harm or death simply because they never spent the money to be a super duper driver.  Would anyone here legitimately advocate for getting rid of seatbelts to teach people "responsibility?"  Using another example, should we stop using antibiotics to teach people to be cleaner and more mindful of personal hygiene?  

I'm not suggesting nannies are perfect or don't have room for improvement, nor that they don't have negative effects on driver involvement, but net net I think they still benefit society as a whole.  

Self driving motorcycles are a looooong way off. Just sayin.