Grassroots Motorsports

Register Log in to GRM
- Community

Birthdays
Recently on the Classic Motorsports forums

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » I think I am in trouble.

1 2

Sept. 16, 2010 3:06 p.m. 81gtv6 Dork

I have taken my boys to a couple of club track days at Mid Ohio this summer. It was mostly to give Mom a little peace and quiet on Saturday or Sunday afternoon and the boys really like being up at the track. (My two year old askes about every other day if we can go see race cars)

Then I took my oldest son up there to the VIP day they had last Sunday. Between the PCA and the Mid Ohio folks we got like10 parade laps , Ian had the biggest smile on his face that I have ever seen. He really liked that I could keep up with the Cobra Mustang in front of us in mommies old car. Trying to explane to him that we really were not going that fast or pushing that hard was no use.

The end result of all of this is that I REALLY want to do some club track days next year but the only car I will have to use is my DD ( 02 SAAB 9-5 Aero). That in of its self is not a bad thing: its paid for and it is fun to drive but I can see the wisdom of using something that you can just walk away form if something bad happens.

Should I be overly concerned with that or just sign up for one and see how it goes?

Thanks
Sept. 16, 2010 3:09 p.m. iceracer Dork

Just do it.
Sept. 16, 2010 3:13 p.m. Vigo HalfDork

Lemme tell ya, i have a strong dislike for most people in the world simply because they walk around subconciously thinking "it wont happen to me" and base all their decisions off that assumption.

It CAN happen to you. So i personally would advise you to get something cheap and make it safe before you make it fast. It SHOULD be something you can walk away from. A rollbar has already saved my life once, and i was going 30mph in a straight line in the middle of a neighborhood when that accident happened.

DONT think it cant happen to you. If you NEED the saab for financial/practical purposes, buy a cheap car, put a cage in it, and then have more fun racing it with the peace of mind that you're taking steps to protect your safety, your sons safety, and your family's financial security.

Props for bringing this up
Sept. 16, 2010 3:14 p.m. JoeyM Dork

I once heard it described as, "Don't put it on a track unless you can wad it up and walk away." It's not very likely to happen, but you need to be prepared. I know someone who stuffed a car into a tire wall. I can't afford to do the same....thus, I only auto-x.
Sept. 16, 2010 3:27 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

There are no guarantees in life except that regret often hurts worse than the sting of having done it and failed.

Not entirely In direct opposition to Vigo ... Mitigate the personal risk to life and limb as much as is feasible because kids need a dad but... they also need role models who demonstrate how to enjoy what life they have.

For the record, I tracked my DD that I depended on for years before I could afford to have disposable beater. I knew the consequences. They were worth the alternative to me. Stuff is just stuff, use it up.
Sept. 16, 2010 3:29 p.m. Tom Heath Webmaster

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

There are no guarantees in life except that regret often hurts worse than the sting of having done it and failed.

Quoteworthy.
Sept. 16, 2010 3:36 p.m. mndsm Dork

Vigo wrote:

Lemme tell ya, i have a strong dislike for most people in the world simply because they walk around subconciously thinking "it wont happen to me" and base all their decisions off that assumption.

It CAN happen to you. So i personally would advise you to get something cheap and make it safe before you make it fast. It SHOULD be something you can walk away from. A rollbar has already saved my life once, and i was going 30mph in a straight line in the middle of a neighborhood when that accident happened.

DONT think it cant happen to you. If you NEED the saab for financial/practical purposes, buy a cheap car, put a cage in it, and then have more fun racing it with the peace of mind that you're taking steps to protect your safety, your sons safety, and your family's financial security.

Props for bringing this up

Funny- I read blah blah blah, rollbar saved my life in a neighborhood, and immediately went searching for a cage builder for my DD. Always wanted an excuse for that. And then I went back and read the rest of it... very sage advice indeed.

Also, what GPS said. Or as I like to put it-

You only get one ride on this merry-go-round. Do you want sit in the boring sleigh, or do you wanna ride the GOOD horse and reach for the brass ring?
Sept. 16, 2010 3:59 p.m. monsterbronco New Reader

I started doing track stuff before i had money or sense. ended up barely walking away from a bad wreck with a balled up car that i hadnt finished paying for. since then i now have a track only car and the one time since the accident when ive had a DD on track i was really putzing around be overaly cautious about ensuring it left under its own power.

its a buyers market right now for a cheap track beast. its worth it. the piece of mind of being able to walk away and still have a ride to work the next day is worth it YMMV.
Sept. 16, 2010 4:04 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Tom Heath wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

There are no guarantees in life except that regret often hurts worse than the sting of having done it and failed.

Quoteworthy.

I'm sure I'm paraphrasing someone (read: plagiarizing).
Sept. 16, 2010 4:23 p.m. TJ SuperDork

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt
Sept. 16, 2010 4:34 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

TJ wrote:

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

That bastard stole my line.
Sept. 16, 2010 6:57 p.m. TJ SuperDork

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

TJ wrote:

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

That bastard stole my line.

Yours is more to the point and easier to remember.
Sept. 16, 2010 7:20 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

his was not meant to be pretty.. but blunt and right to the core of the matter
Sept. 16, 2010 9:45 p.m. pimpm3 New Reader

I would say a few lapping days would be fine in your DD, just be very careful and don't go all out. There are risks obviously but you have to realize that going in. Once you are hooked, look into getting a track car.

Obviously a dedicated track car is a better option but, no one has mentioned the added expenses that go with an additional car. You have the insurance expense for the "fun" car if you plan on driving it to and from the track, or the insurance for the tow vehicle, and trailer. You also have to store it somewhere. Not to mention the tires, and wheels and other things that you accumulate that must be stored.

I know I have a dedicated track car. Fortunatly my wife enjoys driving a large SUV and I have a place to store the car and trailer so for me it was a no brainer....
Sept. 17, 2010 7:46 a.m. JoeyM Dork

racinginc215 wrote: And you insurance company is pretty much going to deny any claim you have and cancel you on the spot and laugh hysterically when your surprised they won't cover it.
Pay attention, he speaks the truth. If you stuff it into a wall, you'll either be getting a new car or repairing the one you killed out of pocket. Don't involve insurance companies unless you want to have them make your life miserable.

[threadjack] Jay Leno said something interesting to Eric Bana in Love the Beast. He told Bana that he'd never have crashed the car if he'd done all the work on it himself.....the implication was that the emotional attachment to the car would be strong enough to prevent Bana from driving it at 10/10ths. What do you guys think about that?

I'm asking because I'd like to try a track day with the datsun replica when she's done, but I don't want to destroy something I've worked that hard on. I like Pimpm3's "Don't go all out" approach. [/threadjack]
Sept. 17, 2010 7:59 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

JoeyM wrote:

...the implication was that the emotional attachment to the car would be strong enough to prevent Bana from driving it at 10/10ths. What do you guys think about that?

Its true. I sold my M3 after building it into a very pretty, functional, competitive IP race car. I sold it before I ever raced it because... I was holding back even in time trials. As a rookie w2w racer - I kinda expected some rookie mistakes and I just couldn't do it after all that work. The guy that bought it has been top 3 for 3 seasons. He bought it as a race car with no sweat equity invested and drives the wheels off it like it was built for.

I went home and built an ugly, safe, stupid fast GTS car out of a wreck and you know what? I can drive it 1/2 a quart of paint deep into the armco and keep the hammer down. I'm willing to do anything to it that I think I can walk away from.
Sept. 17, 2010 7:59 a.m. chuckles New Reader

pimpm3 wrote:

I would say a few lapping days would be fine in your DD, just be very careful and don't go all out. There are risks obviously but you have to realize that going in. Once you are hooked, look into getting a track car.

Another vote for this being a reasonable approach. 10/10ths is strongly discouraged on lapping days anyway, right? "The throttle goes both ways."
Sept. 17, 2010 8:14 a.m. wcelliot Reader

I do track days in DD street cars a lot... of course having a cage would be better, but that's mostly to protect from other cars ramming you... a much lower risk in a well-run track day.

And I would routinely drive it to the track, play all day, then drive home. However, knowing you can get a broken car back home easily at the end of the day makes trailering worth the trouble... and as I'm getting older, my truck is a lot more comfortable on the interstate than my track cars are! ;-)

That being said, I have seen a guy total his wife's brand-spankin' new car into a tire wall and the insurance of course would not pay... and during about every 4th or 5th track day I attend somebody hits the wall with something... and what may be a fender bender on a vintage car often totals a new car.

I fully agree that you should not take a car that you can't afford to write off to the track.

Bill
Sept. 17, 2010 8:28 a.m. 81gtv6 Dork

chuckles wrote:

pimpm3 wrote:

I would say a few lapping days would be fine in your DD, just be very careful and don't go all out. There are risks obviously but you have to realize that going in. Once you are hooked, look into getting a track car.

Another vote for this being a reasonable approach. 10/10ths is strongly discouraged on lapping days anyway, right? "The throttle goes both ways."

Thanks for all of the advice. This is what I was thinking, being reasonable in the begining and working on getting something from there if I really get the bug (fat chance of that not happening).

The car is paid for and while it would suck i could walk away from it and get another something to get around in if it came to that. I guess I was also thinking along the lines of "is this reall that much more dangerous than the 40 min I spend on the road going to work every day"? The half assed plan that had hached in my head was to go to a couple, have fun, get a couple of my friends hooked and then go looking for a car just for the track.

Again thanks for all of the feedback and it looks like my already expensive hobby is going to get more so in the near future.
Sept. 17, 2010 8:34 a.m. sachilles HalfDork

You can have just as much fun in a slow cheap beater track car(provided it's safe), as you can in a track carving demon. Buy a beater, beat it. Save the Saab for daily driving. On the plus side of having a beater, is that it's a spare car for the family in case a daily driver has to go down for a larger repair. It really is the most practical decision. The beater doesn't have to be a full on race car to start. Just work up to it as time and money allow for it. As your sons grow you can work on it together etc.
Sept. 17, 2010 9:01 a.m. paanta New Reader

I wrestled with this for a while. I didn't do track days for a decade because I couldn't afford to trash a car and then later because my cars weren't really suited to it and then later because I had kids and was busy. This summer I realized I'd better get off my ass if I ever wanted to get back into it.

Compared to just the routine brakes/tires/safety gear/entrance fees, you might as well spend a couple grand more and get one of the usual suspects as a cheap track rat. Running costs will be lower, you won't have to worry about destroying it and it'll be more entertaining to boot.

I just did my first open track day with my Miata and it was heaven. Even though the stock brakes were cooked after one lap and the all-season tires were REALLY slow, it was the best time I've had in a while. I had no compunction about driving the wheels off it, because nothing on it is particularly pricey or precious.

If you want to do track days, just give yourself a $3000 budget and figure out how to make it happen on the cheap. I wasn't having any less fun than the rest of the guys there with their 300+ hp cars...but I had a whole lot less at stake.
Sept. 17, 2010 9:10 a.m. wcelliot Reader

81gtv6 wrote:

The half assed plan that had hached in my head was to go to a couple, have fun, get a couple of my friends hooked and then go looking for a car just for the track.

Actually that's a very good plan. If you can find local club days (where a higher number of street cars are driven) that's even better than an event where the hardcore racers will show up. Corvair events like NECC are a nice mix... national level SCCA cars on the track with stock 80hp/PG sedans. Heck, last event a well driven stock Yaris took class over some track prepared waterpumpers. (Torrential rains no doubt were a factor!)

I get to the track so seldom that when I had a track-only car, I was showing up with an untested car with no seat time. It usually broke. And when it didn't break I was slow and unpredictable with it. No fun.

Taking a car you drive on the street to the track fixes both the issues. Both of my "track cars" are now street legal so that I can have more time working with them. Of course, the street gear makes them less competitive on the track, but I'm just there for fun anyway... I leave the serious competition to the guys that relish it.

I'm sometimes just a rolling chicane for them. ;-) And when I'm in a more powerful car than they are, I SLOW DOWN in the passing zones so they can easily get around me. I hate pushing a poorly driven (and that's often me) but hot car around the track then have him pull away from me on the straight... only for me to be back on his bumper after turn 1.

And I prefer to drive on street tires (rather than Rs or slicks) because the car is going to react more like it does on the street. (Stickier tires give less warning and break away much more dramtically. Many organizations require full safety gear if you're running slicks... a really good idea.)

Then just don't overdrive your brakes or try to compete with the times of the better prepared cars and you should be fine!
Sept. 17, 2010 12:04 p.m. kazoospec New Reader

I'm having the same issue. Technically, I could crash my DD at a track and "walk away from it." And, truly, I think that has to be the standard for anything you race. I'd be driving a crappy car for a few years afterwards, but I'd live. I took a half step up a few weeks ago, going from my usual parking lot autocross to one held at a track. Top speeds were still reasonable (top speed was probably about 80-85mph on a LONG straight-away), but it got away from me because of some standing water. I wasn't really pushing the car that hard b/c of the rain, but it got away from me none-the-less. It snapped into a spin so fast I saw the tip of my trunk spoiler out of the corner of my eye before I got my head straightened out, and it was in front of me.

The lesson for me was that you are taking a risk. You can minimize, but never eliminate, risk at a track. I'm still deciding whether to go back. I think I probably will b/c of the whole "getting kicked off the horse" thing, but I'm going back fully understanding what I'm up to.
Sept. 17, 2010 12:16 p.m. wcelliot Reader

There is also the question of the performance of the car in question. Even though I spun it while playng with tire pressures, I never felt unsafe in my 1275 Mini (top speed on the straights of about 80)...

But in my stock M Roadster (with the little factory hoops that qualified me to run) I was hitting 125-130 on the straights and maintaining speeds over 90 for a lot of the course. And I lost it at 90... leading to some interesting thoughts about the adequacy of the little seat hoops should the tires catch something and flip me before I was able to catch it. (I never left the track...)

I parked the car after that and don't see myself taking it back to the track (though it was awesome fun)... I think I'm a lot better off in my Mini if I'm going to run an unmodifed street car (my Fiesta has a hoop and the Stinger a full cage)

Bill
Sept. 17, 2010 12:40 p.m. sachilles HalfDork

Ooo, I've got some pistons and rods for you if you ever want to go to 1380. Rods are used, pistons new. Just sitting in my shed looking lonely.

1 2

You'll need to log in to post.