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GVX19
GVX19 Reader
9/12/13 8:27 p.m.

Is oil a liquid or a soled when the engine is running? Or is it something in the middle? The reason I ask is the engine in my A4 does not have a baffle. So I think I need to add one. If oil in the engine is liquid then can I use a sponge in the engine like they do in the fuel tank? Also what is a safe way to measure the oil volume moved buy the pump?

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
9/12/13 8:32 p.m.

Oil is an incompressible fluid.

curtis73
curtis73 UltraDork
9/12/13 8:33 p.m.

It is a liquid at all temps down to about -65C.

Sponges aren't a logical choice for two reasons; 1) the thickness of the oil wouldn't flow fast enough through the sponge. Oil pumps move a much larger volume of fluid than fuel pumps do, and 2) I can't think of any sponge that would survive the heat and violent atmosphere of the crankcase.

Adding a baffle is not required by any means. If you are using the car in a manner that is causing oil starvation and oil pressure drops, then it may be a good idea. Otherwise, drive it.

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
9/12/13 8:37 p.m.

If it is a V6, then it has a pretty decent alloy oil pan that has a baffle built into it.

They are also prone to cracking from hitting parking stops.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
9/12/13 9:08 p.m.

If you aren't tracking/Auto-xing on a stiff suspension and slicks, I can't imagine it being a problem.

GVX19
GVX19 Reader
9/12/13 9:32 p.m.

In reply to turboswede:

:( not a v6 :(

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GVTURBO/media/20130619_153622_zps4a9a2c49.jpg.html][/URL]

Appleseed
Appleseed UltimaDork
9/12/13 11:31 p.m.

Technically, not an engine either.

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
9/13/13 6:58 a.m.

The 1.8t has a full length windage tray that has some rudimentary trapdoors in it as well. It acts as baffling once installed.

Replace the oil pickup. I haven't seen one yet that wasn't clogged.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy UberDork
9/13/13 8:47 a.m.

Didn't the 1.8T have a reputation for sludge issues if the oil wasn't changed frequently enough?

bgkast
bgkast HalfDork
9/13/13 8:58 a.m.

In reply to SlickDizzy:

Yes. So in this case the oil may have been acting like a solid.

GVX19
GVX19 Reader
9/13/13 10:01 a.m.

Okay, so what you guys are saying is. From an engineering stand point, I can use a sponge still baffling in the oil pan? Like what you see in a fuel tank.

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
9/13/13 10:20 a.m.

Did he mean "can't." Or did he not understand what was said.

GVX19
GVX19 Reader
9/13/13 10:33 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac: That is just what I plan to do with it.

It has KW's coil overs and harsh springs.

 photo 20130830_131356_zps65537a9a.jpg

pres589
pres589 SuperDork
9/13/13 10:43 a.m.

In reply to curtis73:

My fuels and lubes class in college would beg to differ with that -65C temperature. I saw 10-30 Tech2000 turned into a waxy solid around 0F. 0-30 Mobile 1 was still pouring, very slowly, at about -40F/C which was as cold as we were able to get using dry ice and crockery.

That Mobil 1 also had the highest temperature of any of the oils we had around before it would outgas enough to flash when presented with an open flame. It was my stuff that I used in my turbocharged Mazda.

I think engine oil is compressible, but at pressures no one here would need to worry about. I'm talking less than one percent per thousand PSI. I couldn't find good information quickly on engine oil but I did find this on water;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy UberDork
9/13/13 10:48 a.m.
GVX19 wrote: Okay, so what you guys are saying is. From an engineering stand point, I can use a sponge still baffling in the oil pan? Like what you see in a fuel tank.

I think you are going to end up doing some serious damage if you actually intend to do that.

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
9/13/13 10:51 a.m.
GVX19 wrote: Okay, so what you guys are saying is. From an engineering stand point, I can use a sponge still baffling in the oil pan? Like what you see in a fuel tank.

NOPE! DON'T DO IT! See Curtis' reply below:

As was described in another post, the 1.8T already has a baffled oil pan from the factory. Replace the oil pickup with a new one, put it back together properly and get on with it already.

curtis73 wrote: It is a liquid at all temps down to about -65C. Sponges aren't a logical choice for two reasons; 1) the thickness of the oil wouldn't flow fast enough through the sponge. Oil pumps move a much larger volume of fluid than fuel pumps do, and 2) I can't think of any sponge that would survive the heat and violent atmosphere of the crankcase. Adding a baffle is not required by any means. If you are using the car in a manner that is causing oil starvation and oil pressure drops, then it may be a good idea. Otherwise, drive it.
curtis73
curtis73 UltraDork
9/13/13 10:57 a.m.
pres589 wrote: In reply to curtis73: My fuels and lubes class in college would beg to differ with that -65C temperature. I saw 10-30 Tech2000 turned into a waxy solid around 0F. 0-30 Mobile 1 was still pouring, very slowly, at about -40F/C which was as cold as we were able to get using dry ice and crockery.

Exactly... still pouring. That's still liquid. Its freezing point (where it becomes a solid) is about -65. ... of course that is highly variable based on additives, etc.

ncjay
ncjay HalfDork
9/13/13 6:17 p.m.

DO NOT - I will repeat - DO NOT put a sponge in your oil pan and expect good things to happen.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
9/13/13 7:48 p.m.

Okay, I understand no sponge. How about coarse wire mesh, think steel wool with much larger strands and much coarser mesh, say 1/4" openings? I've seen something similar used in valve covers as an oil/vapor separator.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar UberDork
9/13/13 8:55 p.m.

thits hread is dumb.

GVX19
GVX19 Reader
9/13/13 9:07 p.m.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

That is what I'm thinking of doing. I just did not know what state oil would be in at 7k rpm. I also need to find out what the flow rate is so I can judge oil volume correction. It looks like Ill have to just try it and report my findings

Slippery
Slippery HalfDork
9/13/13 9:34 p.m.
belteshazzar wrote: thits hread is dumb.

^ this, but subscribing to see how quick the engine seizes.

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
9/13/13 9:53 p.m.

Flow rate should be about the same at whatever PSI. Oil requirements don't change very much with engine speed, so once you get to regulator pressure, all extra volume is just dumped back into the pan... or into the pump inlet, depending on the design. Redirecting to the pump inlet makes the oil hotter but it reduces certain losses.

LanEvo
LanEvo New Reader
9/14/13 7:36 a.m.

This guy really, really wants to stick something in his oil pan.

Whatever the outcome, it'll be a learning experience for him...and fun for the rest of us. Win-win.

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
9/14/13 7:51 a.m.
LanEvo wrote: This guy really, really wants to stick something in his oil pan.

From what I've seen lately, people seem reluctant to install OIL in the oil pan.

I've found that putting oil in the oil pan greatly helps engine performance and longevity. More people should try it.

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