John Brown SuperDork
March 29, 2010 12:52 p.m.

Autoblog article that inspired my thought

To many, the terms "Mustang" and "high technology" are as mutually exclusive as "China" and "transparent, open society." After all, the first Mustang rolled off the assembly line before the Vietnam War got under way, and in the minds of most people it hasn't changed all that much in the 4.5 decades since. Sure, every once in a while Ford will bolt a fairly high-tech motor into a special edition 'Stang (SVT, Cobra, GT500), but for the most part the original pony car represents exactly that: the origin of the species. Especially when it comes to the base model, the until now lowly – some might say primitive – V6 iteration. For seemingly ever, Ford has been content to let its low-hanging fruit edition Mustang rot away in irrelevance. Nothing seemed to make the Blue Oval boys happier than stocking every rental car fleet in the nation with soft-riding, underpowered has-beens. Let's make that never-rans. So for the performance minded buyer, the V6 version of the Mustang never even entered the picture. Worse, do you know what car people interested in a V6 Mustang cross-shopped the most? Pat yourself on the back if you said Honda Accord Coupe. In other words, the V6 Mustang was never a sports car. Now, along comes the 2011 model year and you can throw everything you thought you knew about Ford's entry-level pony car out the window. It simply no longer applies. Gone is the archaic, universally unloved and soon to be totally forgotten 4.0-liter V6. In its place is a very high-tech version of Ford and Mazda's 3.7-liter 60-degree V6. With it, the 2011 Ford Mustang V6 produces 305 horsepower, 280 pound-feet of torque, and yet returns 31 mpg on the freeway according to the EPA. In fact, as Ford was happy to tell us (quite a a few times), the 2011 V6 is the only car ever to produce 305 hp and get 31 mpg. Fabulous numbers no doubt, but they only tell part of the story. In our opinion, the Mustang V6 could be the most significant car released this year. Follow the jump to learn why.

The 3.7L Mustang is the first 305hp car to get 31mpg.

The 3.7L is a joint venture between Ford and Mazda.

The Mustang is Very cool but a little heavy.

The MX5 has a proper engine bay.

Mazda should see how fast a 305hp 3.7L Mazdaspeed MX5 could be.

skruffy
skruffy Dork
March 29, 2010 12:53 p.m.

This could also fix the RX8, but it'll never happen.

John Brown SuperDork
March 29, 2010 12:56 p.m.

RX8 (and the next RX7) will stay Rotarded I am certain.

alfadriver Dork
March 29, 2010 1:03 p.m.

I know few would ever want to admit it, but the 3.5/3.7 is far, far, far more Ford than it is Mazda. For that matter, on all the 3.7l Mazda applications, all the powertrain development was done by Ford. All of it.

But I don't really see the Miata fitting that motor. Hard to fathom that kind of cutting and pasting.

E-

John Brown SuperDork
March 29, 2010 1:06 p.m.

I thought there was a 5.3L Chevrolet swapped into in a MX5 already... Is the 3.7L wider than a 5.3L LSx?

I am glad the 3.5/3.7L is more Ford, it keeps my friends employed.

alfadriver Dork
March 29, 2010 1:07 p.m.

Chevy's V8 is a very small motor. Smaller than most people give it credit for.

E-

John Brown SuperDork
March 29, 2010 1:14 p.m.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=341403

ZOO Dork
March 29, 2010 1:44 p.m.
John Brown wrote: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=341403

Wasn't the FD in the link in GRM at one point?

John Brown SuperDork
March 29, 2010 1:49 p.m.

I <3 the Rex's plate.

unevolved Reader
March 29, 2010 2:31 p.m.
skruffy wrote: This could also fix the RX8, but it'll never happen.

I'm a little scared for the next RX7. Part of the appeal of the car for me has always been it's simplicity and driver-centric style, and I'm worried Mazda will get carried away. I think the car would be amazing with a 200-250 hp, normally aspirated three-rotor and sub-3000 pounds, but I'm afraid it's going to be nothing more than a restyled, renamed RX-8.

March 29, 2010 3:26 p.m.

I'll have faith Mazda will keep it right:

RX-7 = sports car, RX-8 = GT

I'd be really happy if a new RX-7 was nothing more than a hardtop Miata with a rotary engine.

Actually, I'd just be happy with the hardtop Miata. Wonder if the 2.3/2.5 from the Mazda3 swaps in in place of the 2.0?

JeffHarbert Reader
March 29, 2010 6:20 p.m.

Ford's 3.7 and GMs direct injection 3.6 are both great engines. I'd love it if Painless would offer wiring harnesses for them.

Will HalfDork
March 29, 2010 9:26 p.m.

Why not put the SHO Ecoboost engine in a Miata? Same engine family as the NA 3.7...

GI_Drewsifer Reader
March 29, 2010 10:35 p.m.

The web reaction to the new Mustang has been hilarious. Everyone who used to kick the Mustang around are suddenly faced with a car that, despite some limitations, can play and win against the worlds best. Go Ford!

integraguy HalfDork
March 30, 2010 1:21 a.m.

Ford has been saying for years...decades(?) that it wanted to take the Mustang "upmarket". We had the "almost a 3 series" with the SVO 25 years ago and the availability of an IRS in the Cobra. Finally, when they see that folks just might buy a "pony car" that STARTS at nearly 30K...do the blue oval folks get serious. Hard to believe they created this market niche and even stuck with it when everyone else dropped out. And no, I don't hate Ford, I just don't understand why it took them this long to realize the "smaller engined" "Stang needed to be more than fleet / rental car fodder.

kreb Dork
March 30, 2010 8:10 a.m.
integraguy wrote: Ford has been saying for years...decades(?) that it wanted to take the Mustang "upmarket". We had the "almost a 3 series" with the SVO 25 years ago and the availability of an IRS in the Cobra. Finally, when they see that folks just might buy a "pony car" that STARTS at nearly 30K...do the blue oval folks get serious. Hard to believe they created this market niche and even stuck with it when everyone else dropped out. And no, I don't hate Ford, I just don't understand why it took them this long to realize the "smaller engined" "Stang needed to be more than fleet / rental car fodder.

What's going on at Ford is, dare I say.... amazing. For years we blocked out 90 percent of what came out of detroit as bullE36 M3. Now they're on a run where practically everything they touch has an appeal. I actually caught myself thinking about the V6 with the track pack in the context of something that I'd consider buying. The last time that I hat the hots for a new Mustang was in the 70s and was too young and dumb to know any better.

John Brown SuperDork
March 30, 2010 8:47 a.m.
Will wrote: Why not put the SHO Ecoboost engine in a Miata? Same engine family as the NA 3.7...

My idea was to use the NA 3.7L as a common high power hotrod, then annually make a run of 500 or so Ecoboost specials for homologation purposes with 385hp.

Imagine what would happen to endurance racing when you mix THAT chassis and THAT engine.

Strizzo SuperDork
March 30, 2010 11:14 a.m.
John Brown wrote:
Will wrote: Why not put the SHO Ecoboost engine in a Miata? Same engine family as the NA 3.7...

My idea was to use the NA 3.7L as a common high power hotrod, then annually make a run of 500 or so Ecoboost specials for homologation purposes with 385hp.

Imagine what would happen to endurance racing when you mix THAT chassis and THAT engine.

oversteer

93celicaGT2 SuperDork
March 30, 2010 12:06 p.m.

DORIFTU!!!

grimmelshanks
grimmelshanks New Reader
March 30, 2010 12:54 p.m.

i highly doubt that mazda is gonna put anything not rotary in any rx_. as for 3.7 miatas, lets hope.

Schmidlap Reader
March 30, 2010 1:24 p.m.

About the RX7 and rotaries, Edmunds.com reported this in December 2009:

"Now Inside Line has learned that a new rotary engine will power a more affordable RX-7, one that embodies the spirit of the first-generation car (the SA22C model), and output from this new engine will be a modest 200-250 hp.... be priced around $25,000. ... the 16X is still early in its developmental stages and issues regarding fuel economy and weight (too heavy) are rumored, the new 1,600cc two-rotor design supposedly has the potential to produce up to 350 hp with 215 pound-feet of torque."

http://www.insideline.com/mazda/2012-mazda-rx-7-still-under-development.html

About the new Mustang: in 1991 who'd have thought that in 20 short years the power of the base model Mustang would triple and that it would pull 13s in the quarter mile? Incredible.

Bob

John Brown SuperDork
March 30, 2010 1:33 p.m.
Schmidlap wrote: About the new Mustang: in 1991 who'd have thought that in 20 short years the power of the base model Mustang would triple and that it would pull 13s in the quarter mile? Incredible. Bob

In that respect who would have thought a base 2011 Mustang would outperform a 1994 AND 1997 Mustang Cobra?

Will HalfDork
March 30, 2010 7:33 p.m.

Better question: how many 2009 Mustang GT buyers would have thought the 2011 V-6 would have more power for less money?

Not many, or they wouldn't have bought the 09 GT to begin with.

rogerbvonceg Reader
July 15, 2010 12:14 p.m.

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I have to say the new V-6 Mustang is the first Mustang I've felt real lust for, ever.

I just read in Motor Trend that the engine is based on Ford's now ubiquitous Duratec architecture, which would make it a Ford powerplant based on a Porsche prototype from the early 90's. (Ford outsourced some initial design work to Porsche, but then made significant changes before releasing the Duratec 2.5 in the Mondeo/Contour/Mystique) Naysayers and Mazda fanbois insisted the Duratec was a "Mazda Engine" like the one in the Probe/MX-6/626 etc., but it was not.

Anyway, I'm smiling big because I think by now that $6 million in engine development for the original Duratec has definitely paid off.

My lust is based on the numbers. Let's see, an extra 1.2 liters of displacement, 135 more HP, 115 more ft/lbs of torque, 3 seconds faster to 60...

...and the same gas mileage...

...in a car that weighs about 500 lbs more.

July 15, 2010 12:22 p.m.

Since this thread got resurrected, does anyone know what the 3.7L block is made of? Is it iron or aluminum?

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