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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Interesting towing videos

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Dec. 5, 2011 6:25 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

curtis73 wrote:

SVreX wrote:

Real world towing conditions are about the ENTIRE engineering package, particularly the stopping capability.

I fully agree, and factory tow ratings have little to do with how they've engineered the vehicle.

Now THERE'S a completely useless input.

Considering that it is HIGHLY unlikely you were NOT here when they engineered the vehicle, I think your suppositions are bold at best, dangerous at worst.

The tow ratings are how they communicate the pertinent information to the owner. If you choose to play outside those parameters, then you take the risk yourself.

If you advise others to do their own engineering with whatever limited knowledge they have, you are risking THEM, and that is irresponsible.

Just as street racing is unacceptable, it should be equally unacceptable on this forum to advise people to tow on public streets in any manner not in keeping with the manufacturers recommendations.

If you'd like to tow like that, be my guest. Keep it on the track.
Dec. 5, 2011 6:34 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

In reply to curtis73:

Your arrogance on this issue is unbecoming.

I promise if you and I are ever in an accident and you are towing in a manner outside of the factory guidelines, I WILL sue you, AND WIN, regardless if towing caused the accident or whether you know more than the factory engineers or not.

The only thing these pompous and arrogant internet claims about towing accomplish is to put the issue at the forefront of the minds of every possible lawyer on the planet. It can lead to no good whatsoever.

Additionally, I care too much about Motorsports Marketing, GRM, and this forum to put THEM at risk by using their website to disseminate information which could make them or others liable.

You have NO IDEA how your advice will be implemented. Even though we all understand that you are god's gift to engineering of all things more wonderful than the factory, it is completely impossible to tell how the information you offer will be used. Advising people to color outside the legal lines is completely irresponsible.

Risking yourself is your choice. Risking others is not.
Dec. 6, 2011 11:55 a.m. Vigo SuperDork

Curtis, my mammy says you're a bad influence!!

This is sort of like why people break the speed limit. Sometimes i go under the speed limit, sometimes i go over.

It's not an issue of whether i feel like being a criminal and risk to society at that moment or not.

It's about the fact that the speed limit, regardless of how many millions were spent engineering it, the sign on the side of the road is a vague overgeneralization/oversimplification that can not reflect the REAL, CURRENT conditions and the specific vehicular abilities that i am processing at a very respectable speed with eyes and a brain that frankly, scientists and engineers have not figured out how to match.

I would rather make an in-person, real-time judgment than abdicate my responsibility for my own safety to a number that is a vague line separating two areas of sand that often look pretty much the same. Maybe the vagueness is why they feel 5mph increments are good enough. Just as towing ratings generally are expressed in several-hundred-pound increments.

But, i cant advocate that anyone try to judge their surroundings or their capabilities in real time. Trust in SCIENCE! What am i but a feckless criminal anyway, occasionally breaking the speed limit like that!
Dec. 6, 2011 12:34 p.m. slantvaliant Dork

Tow! Tow! Tow!

Sorry. Got carried away there.
Dec. 6, 2011 12:36 p.m. Cotton Dork

Interesting thread here regarding towing within weight limits: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f72/risk-of-towing-beyond-the-limits-33479.html

From the link:

"Well, after almost a year has passed since my buddy lost control of his FS3000 toy hauler being pulled by his F-250 coming down Sierra pass. He had sway bars and bags. The trailer swayed somehow and took over the control of his tow rig. He ended up smashing into another vehicle and the passenger in the other was killed and the driver injured.

The highway patrol cited him for hauling the trailer with a tow vehicle that was not rated for the weights of the trailer even though he was not too loaded up. The injured sued him big time, the insurance company disowned him due to the fact that he was improperly rigged and was "using his vehicle for purposes not intended by the manufacturer" even though they insured both vehicles.

He is awaiting trial for manslaughter, lost a civil suit for 1.2 million dollars, of which he was able to get 300,000 dollars from his insurances company sold his home, toys and vacation property to pay for it.

His wife divorced him and he is probably going to do some time.

Bottom line is the man is broke, lost his wife, affected PERMANENTLY the life of another man, and killed a woman all because he didn't want to spend another few grand for the right sized tow vehicle."

"I would like to know if the CHP weighed his rig to know how much it weighed. They must have in order for people to win a suit against him."

"Yes they weighed his rig after the accident and he was cited AFTER the accident. They were thorough in the investigation, after all, there was a death....He was one of these guys who liked to make "time" and was not the least afraid, or as I like to think about it, "reverent" to the fact he was hauling a lot of weight and should drive like a semi driver as opposed to a sports car driver. I am sure these things came into play. He only got the insurance because they had insured both rigs, thus implying they knew he was hauling with the truck. They paid their limits and walked away, disowning him like a hot potato."
Dec. 6, 2011 1:04 p.m. nocones HalfDork

Thanks for that story and link. Its a very sobering reality that towing is serious buisness.
Dec. 6, 2011 1:22 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

And forward this message to 10 of your friends or a kitten will get cancer!

I know, I know... I am the guy who advocates overkill too and I do get the message there -> If you tow a jet ski with your 84 Omni your wife will leave you!

That story reads like when you are a kid and you take your first job - there is always some douche who has the worst possible scare story about something... like the guy who always tells the story about the trash compactor that launches a 2x4 thru someones chest or the welding guy who tells the one where the guy got mig wire run thru his eyeball. We should have a thread about the "Epic factory scare stories".
Dec. 6, 2011 2:17 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

If I had known that I would have bought an '84 Omni and a jet ski a long time ago.
Dec. 6, 2011 2:38 p.m. Raze SuperDork

In reply to Cotton:

Raze wrote:

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Common sense here, call your insurance agent before you think you should, because you can.

I posted this on page 1 for exactly what you pointed out...
Dec. 6, 2011 3:52 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

Curmudgeon wrote:

If I had known that I would have bought an '84 Omni and a jet ski a long time ago.

That was a good one. Glad I wasn't drinking anything.
Dec. 7, 2011 2:20 a.m. Vigo SuperDork

Cotton, that is a very sad story.

And, really, a scathing takedown of towing a big travel trailer with a light duty pickup AT ALL.

That thread also states that an empty FS3000 is within 2 fat people of an f-250's manufacturer towing limit. Of course, i dont think the manufacturer's towing limit is an indication of much other than how far they can piss in the tow-rating pissing contest. At least, not back then.

I think the real problem is that at some point, regardless of weight alone, things become too big to be reasonably safe behind a light-duty (which includes a SUPER duty f250) pickup. I really dont think there is a world where towing a 35' long articulated pendulum behind a regular pickup is safe.

Hell, 22' f250 + 35' trailer is ~57 ft. Add another 13 ft and you're into semi territory, and semis arent safe either! But at least they are required to undergo a lot more driver training.

My opinion is that if that fs3000 had been 2k lbs lighter and significantly under the tow rating of that pickup, the dead person would probably still be dead and his insurance would still have tried to berkeley him and his wife would still have left him. In the end it's not really a story about needing a bigger truck. It's a story about trying to ram a square peg into a round hole (a 50 ft long articulated vehicle into an emergency situation), and to SOME degree that's true of almost all towing.

My personal plan is to skip the middleman (the full-size, 3/4 to 1 ton truck that everyone seems to recommend) and just buy a rollback. Probably take me another 5 years, though.

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