Is there a minivan that's not a minivan that's a minivan?

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: I agree with turboswede. We as an open-minded and educated auto enthusiast community need to remind people that if they have a large family, a minivan is probably the best vehicle for them. Especially for boring people that really don't give a berkeley about a car and don't do anything interesting like towing a race car or hauling construction equipment, etc.

Yes, because minivans can't haul anything other than people, right? Never mind that the standard length Caravan with the seats removed can haul more than our Highlander ever could with the seats folded down. Oh and towing capacity? Caravan has a higher rating than our Highlander. The Caravan handles better, its easier to park due to having larger windows that are closer to the ground, etc. Most SUV's have crap towing capacity due to their short wheelbase, so you have to look at the Excursion or Suburban to get anything that can tow a serious trailer, which is a completely different need/solution than just hauling people with the occasional tow of a race car or utility trailer and was not mentioned by the OP.

If the OP wants to try and justify a large SUV or truck, then stop lying to the wife and just state that the new rig will be used to haul a trailer with a race car or a contractors trailer as well as a bunch of kids. So if she doesn't want to drive an Excursion or Suburban, then lets get a new minivan and I'll go get an old HD truck to haul the race car, etc.

The Mazda is the only SUV/Crossover that has a 3rd row that actually fits adults and is easy to use.
The Flex offers AWD and over 350HP.
The Sienna looks badass and has decent power as well.

In reply to turboswede:

I actually want the minivan. The wife ain't having it. I am not paying for another 15mpg gas guzzler like she has now. I already have the "I can move a house" tow vehicle in my diesel F250 once I fix some niggling issues with it.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to turboswede: I actually want the minivan. The wife ain't having it. I am not paying for another 15mpg gas guzzler like she has now. I already have the "I can move a house" tow vehicle in my diesel F250 once I fix some niggling issues with it.

Can't help you with the irrational S.O., sorry. Her vanity will end up costing you money, time and comfort and she's being selfish. My wife is the same way about minivans and it is frustrating. Luckily we aren't planning to have kids so we'll enjoy our sportscars and being DINCs. If we ever did have kids, I'd buy a minivan in a heartbeat, even if it was "my car" because I can't abide that sort of illogical BS when it is my money, time and comfort as I know we'd end up using the thing all the time as I'm the primary driver in the house, especially for road trips and the like. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still have an older, fun car for myself ;)

In reply to Ranger50:

06 was the first year. There are some issues but mostly thins like the power tailgate going out of adjustment and stuff like that. The indi guy that has worked on ours, it is an 06, has said the only thing to really watch out for is the trans and some of the V6 motors have an oil issue. I forget exactly what he was talking about but if there is oil pooling in the V you have a big issue and as long as the trans fluid gets changed every 60K or so you should be good there.

Ours is coming up on 120K and there has been one big issue with it. The air line that goes from the compressor to the distribution block got a pin hole in it. This caused the compressor to run a lot and it burned up. We got that fixed and the trans fluid changed at the same time and that was a big bill. Other than that there have been a few little electrical thins, it is European, but nothing too bad. Considering how little they can be bought for I think they are a good buy if you need that kind of vehicle.

It is also one of the few three row "cars" that I do not mind riding in the back of. There is quite a bit of room and the seats recline.

In reply to Rusted_Busted_Spit:

My friend replied back with rear airbags at $500 each and balance shaft problems. But he knows I can fix that crap because I have all the E sockets in my tool box.

I don't understand the reluctance to own and drive a minivan. Typically it seems to be a malady that affects men, but looks like women are also susceptible to it. I suppose this is the result of some marketing group somewhere. Any of the SUVs mentioned that are not actual minivans will be a compromise compared to an actual minivan.

Don't bother with the expensive technology DVD option.
Once my kids got tablets, they could care less about popping in a DVD, even on longer trips.

Both of us didn't want a minivan until we bought our first one. Now, we just keep the buy in below $5k since the kids trash it anyway.

Might be late to the party... But put me in the club with "The wife said never a minivan" and now that the POS minivan needs replaced another minivan is the only thing she will consider.

Just buy a cheap one for her to live with for about 3 three days.. Her world will change.

I think the reluctance to a minivan is that you still want to live the days where you used to "Rage Against the Machine." The reality is that the only Machine you have raged against recently is the washing machine.

The reason I (and I suspect others) dislike minivans is that there is no alternative. Once GM gave up the flame on the full sized wagon, there was no alternative. It was a minivan, or...well, as everyone here has said, something that gets poorer fuel economy and is less capable. So then, everyone gets complacent, and irritated at those who aren't complacent, and says, "Just STFU and buy a @#$% minivan." This is America, and we want CHOICE. Choice died when the last Roadmaster rolled off the assembly line. So, queue up and plunk down for your Oddesey, your Grand Caravan, or, if you're feeling particularly frisky and independent-minded, your Quest.

Sorry, all the non-car people who could have continued buying big wagons were buying minivans instead because they were way better.

All the car people who liked big wagons were busy forming a solid 0.1% of new-car buyers and being totally ignored.

I seem to recall GM shut down the B-body line to make room for GMT900 pickup production. You can like wagons all you want, but you cant deny that was a smart move for the bottom line at that time (even if they ended up riding that gravy train straight into the dirt and we ended up bailing them out for their shortsighted-ness later).

Extremely smart of them to shut down production of a reasonable family hauler so Bubba can buy more 13 mile per gallon trucks with uselessly small beds.

I refuse to rationalize what some might deem "smart" short term behavior which is really long term ignorance or apathy.

Let me clarify what I said- I don't dislike minivans per se, I simply dislike that they're the ONLY option for situations when there could easily be another, better option. So please don't jump down my throat about it.

20 years ago, my sister decided buy her first new car. Her business was doing well. She was young, hip, outdoorsy, and single with no kids. What she wanted was:
1. Get reasonable gas mileage when commuting or visiting customers
2. Have space to haul 3 to 4 passengers in comfort
3. Have enough space to haul her windsurfing gear on weekends
4. Have space to sleep in it on camping trips if the weather gets nasty.

My brother suggested a minivan and after checking a few out, she bought one.

The reaction from a majority of her acquaintances was either, "Are you pregnant?" or "Do you have kids?" The idea that a woman would own a minivan without being the mother was completely mind bending to a lot of people.

She now has two kids and still drives a minivan.

We have an 07 saturn outlook XR fwd. Third row, iddentical to the accadia much cheaper being a saturn. 3rd row, dvd, easy to get in and out even in the back for an adult of decent size. Reliable, decent gas mileage too

Extremely smart of them to shut down production of a reasonable family hauler so Bubba can buy more 13 mile per gallon trucks with uselessly small beds. I refuse to rationalize what some might deem "smart" short term behavior which is really long term ignorance or apathy. Let me clarify what I said- I don't dislike minivans per se, I simply dislike that they're the ONLY option for situations when there could easily be another, better option. So please don't jump down my throat about it.

I'm not jumping down your throat, im just pointing out that the reasons big wagons went extinct were because everyone was making rational decisions and it just made sense. That's a case of markets actually responding to what consumers want and consumers not being dumb as bricks for once. Then OEMs trained them to be dumb as bricks and buy tarted up pickup trucks with wagon bodies that got horrible mpg because they were cheap to build and margins were good. Right up until our fuel prices got half as bad as everyone elses and a leg fell out from their one-legged business models.

As far as gmt900 not being a good idea, if they hadnt built those trucks then they would have gone bankrupt 10 years earlier than they did. That was the only thing keeping them in business. Those were some of the only good products GM had in late 90s-early 00s. Nearly everything else was an underperformer in its segment. The only reason GM's turn of the century lineup didnt stick out like a sore thumb was because chrysler and ford were doing just as badly.

turboswede wrote: Never mind that the standard length Caravan with the seats removed can haul more than our Highlander ever could with the seats folded down. Oh and towing capacity? Caravan has a higher rating than our Highlander. Most SUV's have crap towing capacity due to their short wheelbase, so you have to look at the Excursion or Suburban to get anything that can tow a serious trailer, which is a completely different need/solution than just hauling people with the occasional tow of a race car or utility trailer and was not mentioned by the OP.

Not sure what Highlander model you have, but the current one has a tow rating for 5000lbs, IIRC. I can't think of any minivan that has higher than 3500. That's the difference between towing a open-deck car trailer and NOT towing one (if you believe in tow ratings).

Most mid-size SUVs have sufficient (legal) towing capacity to tow a car on a trailer (Highlander, 4Runner, Pathfinder, etc etc). But none of those has a functional 3rd row seat, so why are they even being discussed?

I'm not sure what you "SERIOUS" trailer people are towing around, but 5000lb capacity is sufficient to lug around a car on a trailer or a 6x10 utility trailer full of mulch, which is more than most people do. For those who have to have a giant enclosed trailer or camper or heavy-duty work utility rig, you probably aren't gonna use the wife's daily driver for that, regardless of what she drives. You're gonna have a dedicated tow rig if you're that serious about towing really heavy things..

Is there a decent Minivan that can be found with a manual trans that is not 25 years old?

Ranger50 wrote: Theoretical shopping, within the next year or so, for the wife's next DD/kid/family hauler. I REFUSE to spend 60k for a stupid status symbol 4x4 Tahoe/Suburban/Expedition. She wants something newer then the 04 Av she has, a "rear seat" DVD system you know for the kids, and no minivan. Plus I'm sure she won't do foreign. Me, does it have wheels to roll on and get everyone where we need to go without having to spend Fort Knox worth of fuel? Halp?

There is always the full size van. Alternately, you could maybe get by with a sub-minivan like the Ford Transit and the Chevy version of the NV200. Someone else said Mazda5 and Astro already.

I doubt my answer actually helps if van image is the problem.

Thinkkker wrote: Is there a decent Minivan that can be found with a manual trans that is not 25 years old?

Mazda5. I'm not going to do the math and research dates to check the 25 year thing, but Toyota Previa, Toyota Van (aka Vanwagon), VW Vanagon, Ford Aerostar and the first Gen Chryslers were all sold in the US with a manual. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the Eurovan was available. All but the VW and Toyotas are super rare.

I've talked to some Transit Connect owners, and they seem to be very pleased with them. They have a bit of a "utilitarian" flair about them, but hey, economical and reasonably priced.

If Chevrolet built a wagon version of the current Impala...or the RWD fleet equivalent...

Being utilitarian is what's RIGHT with vans and wrong with SUVs. The new Transit Connect seems pretty cool to me.

I can tell you chrysler stopped making their vans with manuals in 1994. They only came from the factory with the 2.5L 4 cylinder (turbo in 89-90) but you can swap 5 spd onto the 3.0 v6 vans pretty easily if you can find the trans itself.

Im pretty sure eurovans were only available in USA with manual for the first year or two. Wikipedia would know.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I've talked to some Transit Connect owners, and they seem to be very pleased with them. They have a bit of a "utilitarian" flair about them, but hey, economical and reasonably priced.

Actually a couple weeks ago I finally saw one of the new transit connects on the road, and it was the passenger van not the cargo van. It looks way better in person than it does in the marketing photos. I liked it a lot.

The answer to what min van is not a mini van is obvious

7 seats, rear lays down as a bed, 17 mpg, tows up to 7000lb legally, rides great, RWD, after 98 they are galvanized bodied.

Mine cost $1K with 122K on the clock, has zero rust and I like driving it

I see the logical case for the minivan (side point: they should just be called "vans" now... they are a far cry from the 80's "mini"vans. Only the Mazda5 in my opinion fits that description), but what indeed is wrong with going out to the parking lot and saying "that's my car" with a smile? Get a wrangler if it makes you happy. Need all decisions be couched against logic? From a bunch of race car drivers? If minivans make one feel "old", then berkeley it, get something that makes you feel young. If logic was applicable in all circumstances, those without kids would all be driving base model scion XA's, 2 kids, minivan, and the variety of vehicles available to enthusiasts would be zero.

So embrace those who value emotion above logic, and hope that they buy an RS4 Avant, and not a 4Runner/CX-7/Venza/FJCRuiser/Explowa.