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Pennsylvania is switching to only sell gas with 10% ethanol in it, it kills the fuel economy as well as eats fuel lines. In small engines it eats the whole carbs and on honda small engine motors voids the warranty. What can I do?
Does anyone sell gasoline anymore? I don't mind paying extra. Or is there a ratio of mixing a certain % race gas to a gallon of the ethanol gas to give it its kick back, and not torch the valves?
Andrew
Ethanol is an excellent fuel, and does NONE of the things you say it does. I was going to suggest that you do your homework, but there is so much nonsense, and misinformation about it on the internet, that you probably already have.
Just use it, it works fine. You've probably been using it anyway.
Is there a solution for gas with 10% ethonal?
moar boosts!
zomby woof wrote:Ethanol is an excellent fuel, and does NONE of the things you say it does.
It does hurt fuel economy. I just started a thread asking about it recently, and the consensus came back that it doesn't really matter except for the fuel economy. There is one station that sells gas without ethanol, and I tend to believe him because of people saying that their lawn mowers run better on that particular fuel. My own experience was on a single tank of gas, about 70% highway, and I got about 3MPG better.
Well, Zomby, I will add that it will decrease your mileage and degrade power somewhat. This assumes it's a car that cannot advance its own timing or boost.
Put in your car, turn key, start, and drive.
Odds are, the car and mower will run as if it doens't even notice, and whatever gains you may get by blending some race fuel will be more than offset by the +$10/gal of the race fuel.
Even so, the E10 does not hurt fuel economy all that much. Assuming your engines are running right. mtn's 3mpg could be confounded by a whole host of things....
Eric
alfadriver wrote: Even so, the E10 does not hurt fuel economy all that much. mtn's 3mpg could be confounded by a whole host of things....Eric
Should be noted that the 3mpg was based on E15.
mtn wrote:alfadriver wrote: Even so, the E10 does not hurt fuel economy all that much. mtn's 3mpg could be confounded by a whole host of things....Eric
Should be noted that the 3mpg was based on E15.
Still- you need to run it for quite a few tanks- my Honda CRX HF used to be able to have a very wide spread of economy- could get 55mpg, and then 63, then 56, and then another 63mpg. If I had a decent side wind, it would be awesome. Just too much to depend on one tank for a real comparison.
E-
John Brown wrote:Is there a solution for gas with 10% ethonal?moar boosts!
This.
I can't wait until my megasquirt setup is complete so i can run E85.
Is that with the mainsail and jib up, Eric?
I wouldn't worry too much about 10% on any car made in the last, say, 15-20 years. Before that and you need to keep an eye on the rubber fuel lines. May be about time to replace those anyway. I had a fuel line between the 2 halves of my bike tank turn to jello, and I suspect that was because of E10, but that was after 20 years also. Internal carb rubber bits may also go bad sooner rather than later, but after 20 years it's probably time for a kit anyway.
Dr. Hess wrote:Is that with the mainsail and jib up, Eric?
Sure seemed like it. It's not like I short filled it, as I always went to multiple clicks, and the surrounding tanks were pretty normal.
But that car sure liked the side winds.
E-
tuna55 wrote:Well, Zomby, I will add that it will decrease your mileage and degrade power somewhat. This assumes it's a car that cannot advance its own timing or boost.
At 10% it won't be noticeable.
buy high octane. At least most of the BP stations here in Wisconsin still serve their high octane without ethanol.
RossD wrote:buy high octane. At least most of the BP stations here in Wisconsin still serve their high octane without ethanol.
Interesting, as ethanol should work as an octane booster.
It does, that's why it offers lower performance in some vehicles.
It does make a huge difference in small engines. With the alcohol absorbing moisture on infrequently used engines like snowmobiles and mowers the carbs seem to plug more than twice as often and in half the time. The problem is so bad that even here in MN where the legislated mandatory e-10 laws started there are a slew of stations dedicating one pump to "off-road use only" straight gas to cut down on the maintenance required. Might want to see if any of your favorite stations are looking to do the same, most likely it'll be the ones already selling kerosene and off-highway diesel.
oldopelguy wrote:It does make a huge difference in small engines. With the alcohol absorbing moisture on infrequently used engines like snowmobiles and mowers the carbs seem to plug more than twice as often and in half the time. The problem is so bad ....
Twice as often, in half the time? 
I don't believe you. We have been using it for as long as I can recall, and I have 7 bikes, 2 mowers, a tiller, generator, power washer, and several cars, and trucks, and have NEVER seen any indication of that. Nor has anybody I know.
I stayed out of the last ethanol discussion, because I know they all degrade into this paranoid anti-ethanol hysteria, and that's all it is.
Paranoid? I've only seen one in this discussion so far. 
The local Stihl dealer has had a bunch of problems with ethanol in chainsaw carburetors. Mostly in saws more than ten years old. It is turning the diaphragms and gaskets into mush. My father just had three of them replaced. Also a lot of the older outboard boat engines are having fuel pump failures and carburetor blockages. Most of the marinas carry 100% gas for that reason.
I guess Zomby's stuff is just better and newer and the rest of us lie. 
RossD wrote:buy high octane. At least most of the BP stations here in Wisconsin still serve their high octane without ethanol.
Lucky bastard, good luck finding anything other than E10/E15 in the Milwaukee metro area.
oldopelguy wrote:It does make a huge difference in small engines. With the alcohol absorbing moisture on infrequently used engines like snowmobiles and mowers the carbs seem to plug more than twice as often and in half the time. The problem is so bad that even here in MN where the legislated mandatory e-10 laws started there are a slew of stations dedicating one pump to "off-road use only" straight gas to cut down on the maintenance required. Might want to see if any of your favorite stations are looking to do the same, most likely it'll be the ones already selling kerosene and off-highway diesel.
I've been in Minnesota all my life. I do have one motorcycle that seems to clog up its carburetors quickly, but I don't know if that's due to E10 or if it's just the nature of that particular beast. I've never had any problems with the other ten bikes in the garage, my lawn mower or my old cars.
I've had to rebuild the carbs on my go karts (not real go karts, but those things you buy at Northern Tools) several times due to the ethanol. Once I got the straight gas all my problems ceased. Once I read the instructions I found out that they specifically tell me not to use gas with ethanol in it.
I have several cans of straight gas in the shop which is good cause it appears I won't be able to get straight gas for long. I might not be able to even get it now.
can probably get it from a kart track or a small airfield.. I doubt they allow ethonal in airplanes due to the possibility of water in the fuel freezing. (or at least any good pilot would not allow fuel mixed with ethonal)
zomby woof wrote:Ethanol is an excellent fuel, and does NONE of the things you say it does.
not sure about your situation, but from my own research (many tankfuls in all 3 cars) I've found a significant decrease in fuel milage when running E10.... the Integra on long trips, fill up at the Texaco in my community that (up until a few weeks ago) served "real" gas... will avg ~ 36 mpg, for the rest of the way to Daytona and back (nothing but E10 anywhere) the overall milage drops to < 32.... goes back up when I can fill up here at home... (not anymore the owner finally gave in) .... the Impreza was getting a consistent 24 - 25... now 21 - 22.... and the CRX would get as much as 38 to and from an a-x , now I haven't seen over 32...
I have heard that some cars aren't affected at all , guess I'm just unlucky with my stable of hoses...
zomby woof wrote:Twice as often, in half the time?
I don't believe you.
Twice as often based on miles ridden, half the time if you let it set.
In the 30+ years I've been riding bikes the two schools of winter storage have always been split into the fill it up full with stabil crowd and the drain it all out dry crowd. I've always been the fill it up type, and always gone with a serious carb cleaning every other year and a new kit every other cleaning. Same bikes I've been riding for years, one in particular I've had for nearly 20 years.
Last 3 or 4 years it's needed a cleaning at least once every single year, and I've put 2 kits in the same sets of carbs in the last two years. Same carbs, same procedure, same guy, same kits, same everything except the gas now has ethanol in it.
My FIL has the same story to tell with his snowmobiles. In carbs that sit for a while the fuel separates and the bottom of the bowls and the jets get moisture damage. He's had the same sleds and given them the same treatments for decades, and same story.
Believe me or not, I know what has happened to me.
I was going to chime in, as I've had to research the crap out of ethanol fuel and ethanol blends way more than I ever really wanted to, but it seems people have answered this pretty good. Frankly, ethanol is much more corrosive than fuel and it will not get you the same mileage. However, the fact that it's only a 10% ethanol blend means that the drop isn't all that significant. And engines built these days can run 10% without any big problems; nothing like the conversion you have to do to get an engine to run on E85 (85% ethanol blend). Now that doesn't mean it completely nullifies the corrosive and mileage-reducing effects of the ethanol, but the fact that it's a much lower blend (10%) means that the noticeable effect isn't huge. Environmental arguments aside (which really aren't so cut-and-dry, black-and-white as many people say) a 100% gasoline blend would be better for your engine and mileage. I don't know if I'd go through all the trouble to avoid E10 if I was putting into a more modern car. I can't offer any anecdotal evidence about letting it sit, but it wouldn't surprise me. It is, after all, a blend.
