saw this on faceballs. They claim it’s different than phantom grip lsd trash. My favorite line from the eBay store description is “SO if you have any further doubts, find our Youtube channel to see how it works.”
No link to YouTube channel. oh no, you gotta find that yourself.
I don't see how ramp angles have anything to do with that junk.
Ramp angles matter when the torque is being transmitted through the blocks first, and the blocks force against the pin, and the pin spreads the blocks harder into the clutch packs. This... can't have any effect because torque never gets transferred through the blocks, the blocks only react to speed difference.
(edited because half asleep)
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An improvement over the phantomgrip, perhaps...But a marginal one.
Just buy a proper limited slip, it isn't much more money (if you find a slightly used one) and they are a known quantity.
So no, this isn't much if any better than the Phantom Grip stuff.
In reply to Stefan :
Oh I know that. I wouldn’t dare put this thing in any diff I own. Rather, I thought you guys would get a kick out of someone essentially rebranding trash to get money from the uninformed.
That is a slightly improved Phantom Grip. In something like a naturally aspirated Miata a 'slightly better phantom grip' wouldn't be AS useless as it is in a FWD car, but the big problem i see here is that at that price it competes against ACTUAL lsd's.
The pin thing does work, though. In a differential it's actually the differential pin that transfers force to the side gears to propel the axleshafts. This is the same way a 'lunchbox locker' works.
In reply to Vigo :
Has anybody (besides phantom slip) tried a “bolt in” lsd? I’m not talking about the units we currently have today where it replaces the whole diff either. I mean, why hasn’t anyone tried to make something better than this design?
Seems like a gold mine if you get it figured out. Plenty of open diffs out there. Not everyone wants to spend 600$ on a used Miata diff, nor does anyone want to spend $1,200 on a new, real unit.
In reply to _ :
Like some sort of clutch packs to replace the side gears and spider gears or something?
In reply to thatsnowinnebago :
Yeah, that’s the jive. Lol.
Well, what a Phantom Grip does is basically try to convert an open diff to a clutch-type LSD, but... without the clutches. 
It just has a metal surface on each 'block' rubbing a metal surface on the inside of each side gear. Those gears were not designed to be a friction surface which is both good and bad. It's bad because it means a phantom grip has very little actual grip, and it's good because whatever surface hardening they put on those gears is the only thing keeping this design from functioning solely as a metal debris generator (although it still does that to some degree). In terms of actually using a clutch material, the main problem is the space constraints. If you look at actual clutch type LSDs they have the clutches and steel plates on the outside of the side gears, with deep pockets made into the diff carrier to accept them, and less diameter constraints as well whereas trying to pack clutch plates between the diff pin and the side gears is limited not only in the depth of the clutch pack but also the diameter.
Honestly, if there was an easy 'fix' for this someone would have done it by now. I think the main problem is that by the time you design something that functions as well as a purpose-built limited slip, you're right there in the price/effort range of the existing limited slips, so the problem isn't really one of technology or ideas but just not wanting to pay what something legitimately costs to get done. I only own one aftermarket LSD out of all the ~60 cars i've ever had (although some had factory LSDs) so I'm very familiar with the idea of just not being willing to pay for it.
In reply to Vigo :
Well said. Thnx
Differentials are going to disappear...electric motors per wheel make them obsolete friction devices. computer logic is the difference-iater.
_ said:In reply to Vigo :
Has anybody (besides phantom slip) tried a “bolt in” lsd? I’m not talking about the units we currently have today where it replaces the whole diff either. I mean, why hasn’t anyone tried to make something better than this design?
Seems like a gold mine if you get it figured out. Plenty of open diffs out there. Not everyone wants to spend 600$ on a used Miata diff, nor does anyone want to spend $1,200 on a new, real unit.
There are companies that make parts to replace all of the internals with the ratcheting mechanism from a Detroit Locker.
They aren't differentials, though, since they don't differentiate. They are more like spools with a mechanism to let one wheel overrun if necessary.
I would NOT want to run one on the front axle of anything. It's spooky enough when the rear end does a little side to side cha-cha when reapplying power on the highway after coasting, especially when it is raining or I am towing. Couldn't imagine what the torque steer and CV joint-exploding harshness would be like on the other end.
Why not just use a spool? It'll be more predictable, and much more durable than this.
chaparral said:Why not just use a spool? It'll be more predictable, and much more durable than this.
Because turns?
didn't miatas come with a good lsd from the factory..
I'm thinkin of a word.. starts with t ends with orsen..
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Not all of them. Some of them come with a 'bad' LSD depending on your personal opinion.
In reply to Knurled. :
I had a jeep with the first quadratrac driveline. Basically the transfer case had two modes. One was a differential sending power to maybe the front, maybe the back. The other was locked, so normal four wheel drive. It was used as trail rig a lot so i put a similar locker in both axles. It was the most terrifying thing i have ever driven on the road. Imagine driving in a straight line at a steady speed, and it starts pulling to one side, which gradually increases. As your strong arming the steering wheel to fight it there is a loud pop then it instantaneously is pulling that hard in the opposite direction. Since you were already yanking the wheel that way the vehicle shoots that way hard and fast. It isnt a pleasant experience in something with 100" wheelbase that is a foot higher than stock.
In reply to Vigo :
And some don't come with them at all. Even the ND, the Sport, doesn't have an LSD from the factory.
nimblemotorsports said:Differentials are going to disappear...electric motors per wheel make them obsolete friction devices. computer logic is the difference-iater.
This...individual wheel motors are better at everything than any kind of differential, even before you factor in torque vectoring capabilities.
7 sold!
Remember the PG tagline - works so well its like its not even there!
There's a sucker born every minute.
It was used as trail rig a lot so i put a similar locker in both axles. It was the most terrifying thing i have ever driven on the road. Imagine driving in a straight line at a steady speed, and it starts pulling to one side, which gradually increases. As your strong arming the steering wheel to fight it there is a loud pop then it instantaneously is pulling that hard in the opposite direction. Since you were already yanking the wheel that way the vehicle shoots that way hard and fast. It isnt a pleasant experience in something with 100" wheelbase that is a foot higher than stock.
In general the only reason old school 4wds can run any kind of limited slip or locker in the front is because you can also use manual hubs to make sure it doesn't do anything unless you want it to. The only limited slip that is good on the street for FWD, or the front of the 4wd, is a torsen or helical, but those aren't good off-road because if one tire is in the air it doesn't function. Even on the street you can still have that directional 'hunting' if your front tires are starting to spin, but it's not as bad as the on/off locker you're describing. Wouldn't be an issue on an AWD/4WD because good luck spinning all 4 on the street, but also wouldn't be that great off-road anyway.
In reply to Vigo :
Popup Trivia: Detroit Lockers were invented for military vehicle applications, and they were used on the front and rear. Drag racers co-opted them when they found that they could break axles with a welded diff/spool, not when launching but when turning the car onto the return road with hot grippy slicks.
And for a Ford 9", it's pretty much the only useful non-spool since there is no room to fit a proper clutch diff. Factory Traction-Loks only had clutches on one side, and they had to thin out the backside so much that they had a habit of cracking the diff case.
Vigo said:It was used as trail rig a lot so i put a similar locker in both axles. It was the most terrifying thing i have ever driven on the road. Imagine driving in a straight line at a steady speed, and it starts pulling to one side, which gradually increases. As your strong arming the steering wheel to fight it there is a loud pop then it instantaneously is pulling that hard in the opposite direction. Since you were already yanking the wheel that way the vehicle shoots that way hard and fast. It isnt a pleasant experience in something with 100" wheelbase that is a foot higher than stock.
In general the only reason old school 4wds can run any kind of limited slip or locker in the front is because you can also use manual hubs to make sure it doesn't do anything unless you want it to. The only limited slip that is good on the street for FWD, or the front of the 4wd, is a torsen or helical, but those aren't good off-road because if one tire is in the air it doesn't function. Even on the street you can still have that directional 'hunting' if your front tires are starting to spin, but it's not as bad as the on/off locker you're describing. Wouldn't be an issue on an AWD/4WD because good luck spinning all 4 on the street, but also wouldn't be that great off-road anyway.
A 1-way clutch type isn't bad on the front either.
I was thinking one use that individual wheel motors wouldn't be best for is drifting, they would make it harder to break traction than the spool-like action that's preferred in drifting.
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