Keep Fiesta ST or Trade to '08 Mustang GT - Weekend Toy (HPDE and Autocross)

I currently have a 2018 Fiesta ST that has been my DD and weekend HPDE car. I plan on doing 6-10 HPDE events this year and as much autox as I can fit in. I no longer need my Fiesta as a DD and was thinking about replacing it with a 2008 Mustang GT. I want something that can grow with me as I become a better driver and I'm concerned that I'll outgrow the Fiesta's front wheel drive quicker than I would a Mustang, particularly for HPDE and not so much for autox. I'm also looking for the car to become a project that I can tinker with and modify along the way.

My car needs to be street drivable. I've also already looked at the usual Miata and BRZ suggestions, but don't fit with a helmet on. Budget wise the 05-09 Mustang GTs are in my price range. With either car I'll have about $8K left over for upgrades and more importantly track time for the upcoming year. Autocross wise, I'm not targeting any particular class to run in. My thoughts are I'll modify the car the way I want and just run the associated class. Autox for me is for fun and not so much to be super competitive. Same with HPDE, I'm there for myself to grow and have fun and don't really car if someone is faster than me.

Any thoughts on moving from the Fiesta to a Mustang? Here's what I'm thinking...

Mustang is rear wheel drive and I'd like to learn how to drive a rear-wheel drive on the track and I've been told by several of my instructors that the rear-wheel drive can be more "fun" on the track.  Mustang is a bigger heavier car and a different driving experience than the lighter weight Fiesta. Both cars have good aftermarket support for upgrades.  Mustang is roomier and will fit my XL frame better.  Consumables on the Mustang will cost more than the Fiesta for the year.  A track ready Mustang may be easier to sell in the future if I want to upgrade as compared to an upgraded Fiesta. Finally, I've always wanted a Mustang.

Thanks,
Paul

Did you go to the Octane Academy yet? I've been in motorsports for almost 20 years now and thought I was pretty competent. The instructor ride-along in a basically stock FiST made me realize how much I still have to learn and how quick those cars can really be, even unmodified. That said, yea, RWD will take you further and you should do what you really want ;)

Sounds like you want a Mustang and it's not a huge investment compared to what you're replacing.  I think you'll only find enablement here...

In reply to Armitage :

I have not yet. I'm sure I'm no where near capable of driving the Fiesta at the limits at this point. I definitely think I want to move to RWD. On the other forums I'm getting advice to look at a Miata although I have trouble fitting in one height wise even without a helmet. May have to look at those again with the idea of adding taller rollbar and lowering seat somehow.

Thanks for your thoughts.

In reply to Matt B :

Thanks, Matt!

Hehe - always glad to give a little encouragement!   In all honestly though, there's usually going to be a "smarter" way to do this kind of thing with a Miata or whatever won Nationals in your desired class, but there's something to be said for actually being excited about your steed-of-choice (pun intended) and sticking to your budget.

Stock vs. stock for autoX where hp is less of a factor, I imagine you already have the more capable car. The later 5th gen Mustangs had significant suspension improvements, so there's obviously things you can do. I'm not certain of the budget impact, but I wonder if you'd be better off getting a 2011+ V6, which makes similar power and has better suspension. If you're spending $8k to improve the car, the oem suspension might be a moot point.

Depending on when you bought, Fiesta STs have taken a huge hit with all of the discounts.  I've been looking and new ones are cheaper than used ones.  You've got the platform and taken the depreciation hit.  You can do a LOT with a Fiesta ST.  I'd stick with the car that's already in your garage vs an unknown that's 10 years older, unless you just don't like it.

a 3V can get to scary speeds on a track. Just FYI.   Also, for 4-6K you can get a slightly higher miles clean version. 

I would go for the 3v, but I really like those.  Your MPG will hurt more on a daily basis, getting 18-24 depending on city-hwy. 

If you do it right, for less than $10k, you can have quite a well prepped 300 whp fully setup S197 3V that can compete competitively in CAM, ESP, and scare the begeebus out of you.

The Mustang is going to chew through gas/tires/brakes at a dramatically higher rate, which is something to consider. 

Purchase price of 3 valve GT + $8k modding budget = Coyote money?

STM317 said:

Purchase price of 3 valve GT + $8k modding budget = Coyote money?

Fair point, This does get you an extra 100 hp.  Also, I will say that I feel the S197 with a coyote may not depreciate to the point of the 3V's.  Nothing to go on with that though.

You said in your post that you're afraid you'll "outgrow" FWD.  You also said you were just doing autox and HPDE for fun. 

Therefore, I'd say that unless you have a real strong desire for a Mustang simply because you want one, then no reason to switch.  A FWD car can be incredibly fast at both autox and HPDE....more than enough to put a smile on your face and challenge the daylights out of you.  I know you want to keep the car streetable, but just as a point of reference I spent this past weekend running a LeMons race at Road Atlanta.  There were some stupid fast FWD cars running around the track.  And if you're just doing autox and HPDE for fun, who cares what your lap times are.  If you're enjoying it, that's all that matters.  The Mustang will be fun, so I don't think it's a wrong choice, but maybe not necessary.  You'd probably want to modify the rear suspension as they're really not great road course cars out of the box.

Ok, I am going to be "that guy" but what about safety?  If the older Mustang includes adding a bar and a better seat and belts, then that's what you should do. If you plan to drop a B-Spec bar into the Fiesta, then that is the better option.  Track days will net some serious speed in either option, you want to be prepared should the worst happen.  I would say the chance of rollover is higher in the Fiesta, but high-speed understeer or brake failure into a tire wall is higher in the 'Stang.  Things to consider. 

Klayfish said:

I know you want to keep the car streetable, but just as a point of reference I spent this past weekend running a LeMons race at Road Atlanta.  

In that case did you see our ex-B-Spec Fiesta out there?  It's slow, but it will make you a faster driver. 

$8k leftover? Buy and build a Lemons/Chumpcar. You can HPDE it, autox it, and have way more fun. 

It's a tough call between the Fiesta and the S197. Parts are cheap and plentiful for the Mustang, tons of aftermarket support, they are fairly easy to work on, etc. It's honestly going to feel much slower to you on track than the Fiesta. I had two S197 GTs one with a Roushcharger and the other N/A. The N/A was a dog and just felt so lumbering and cumbersome. You'll also be spending more on brakes, tires, gas, and other consumables. If you do go the S197 route and use it as a track car, just do yourself a favor and rip the door cards out and make some aluminum replacements. The fabric on those doesn't stick and any replacement you get won't either. 

Tyler H said:

Klayfish said:

I know you want to keep the car streetable, but just as a point of reference I spent this past weekend running a LeMons race at Road Atlanta.  

In that case did you see our ex-B-Spec Fiesta out there?  It's slow, but it will make you a faster driver. 

Was that you?  Yes, I saw the car.  I was wondering how that is a $500 car....   I thought the car was pretty quick. 

I was in the orange Toyota Cressida, #71.  I drove both Saturday and Sunday closing shifts, from about 3 to 5pm each day.  I had only been on Road Atlanta once before, a few years ago.  So Saturday in the rain was pretty intimidating.  I was really taking it easy, couldn't see a darn thing going down the back straight due to the rooster spray.  Sunday was much, much better.  Had dry track and after a bit, got very comfortable and put down some decent laps.

So I’ve kinda gone through the same thing, but when I was looking for a new To me car, I was dead set on rwd. Ended up with a c5z06. Now, I love the car. That being said, I suddenly understand why everyone says “slow car fast” is more fun. I’m not an ignorant asshat (I mean, mostly lol) so I’m not going to take the corvette much faster than freeway speeds, and I’m certainly not doing any dumb stuff near anyone, so that means unless I’m on a track, I just have to baby it. 

I hear that the fiesta ST is fun at all speeds, so that’s just something to take into consideration.

Edit: oh, and I'm not saying the ST is slow. It's a fast car, and it's fun to drive at all speeds? Add that to lower consumables and honestly I'd stick with that! If I were to shop again... I would probably end up with one

The thing about FWD vsRWD is over stated.    A FWD car can be faster than a RWD car.

My ZX2SR was a case in point, it was easily faster than a lot of rwd cars.

Keep the ST and work on driving it until you feel you can no longer go faster.

On the advice of several other people, I went and looked at Miatas again. Turns out I can fit comfortably under the soft top of an NB miata, would still need to do some seat lowering to fit with a helmet. Based on that, and all the other feedback I've been getting, I think the discussion has now become keep the Fiesta or get an NB Miata. First world problems...

You might also consider an NC, they aren't as well regarded as a "Miata" but they are solid and have a bit more room inside. And even the NC3 is getting CHEAP. I think I saw one locally at a dealer with reasonable mileage for around $12-13k.

If you bought the ST new, don't get rid of it or mod it until you go to ST Octane Academy. That was serious fun and worth the 24 hour drive out to Salt Lake.  I learned a ton just in that day and I would do that again in a heartbeat.

In reply to Paul_H :

Bet the FiST is faster than the NB.

iceracer said:

The thing about FWD vsRWD is over stated.    A FWD car can be faster than a RWD car.

My ZX2SR was a case in point, it was easily faster than a lot of rwd cars.

Keep the ST and work on driving it until you feel you can no longer go faster.

Was the car faster or was the driver faster? Same tires? Same P:W ratio? I got a point by from a 550hp Camaro at a track day in my 1.6 Miata, does that mean my car was faster? 

Sorry, it's just not a good comparison at all. 

I have had the FiST on track with Miatas.  Once, there was an NC Spec-Miata way out in front of me, and within two turns, I had easily reeled it in and was setting up for a pass.  Then I realized he saw the checkered flag that I missed.  LOL!  So driven at 10/10ths, a Fiesta will catch a Spec Miata driven at 2/10ths.  Under green again, an NC Spec Miata on slicks will not pull away from the Fiesta on the straights, but in the bendy stuff it is no contest.  Lowered, on slicks, the Fiesta might hang pretty well.  I'll know this summer.