I have a 6, soon to be 7 year old. There are a couple of summer karting options locally. I'm not looking to groom him into a super racer....I just want him to have fun, if he wants to do it. I'm ignorant of karting. What sort of budget will we need to have fun at the local track? Learn me o great GRM collective.
So... I'm listening.
The local place has an eight year old min. My oldest has six months...
I'm listening too. Even if it's just doing autox with a kart. Both of my boys want to race. I had looked into it a bit when I lived in PA. The feedback I got was that it could get costly if you don't want to get lapped quickly, and that it was ultra-competitive (i.e. cheating is rampant). I want my boys to have fun, and yes I want them to compete. But I don't have the time, skills, budget or desire to get into that kind of stuff. I'd prefer to find either a spec type series or just get them a kart that's legal for autox and let them start that way.
+1. Be nice to find a kart track to let 'em give it a try first...
We basically have a new group starting up. They allow as early as 6. The existing place allows 7 and up. My son is 6 at the moment, but will be 7 by the end of the month. The existing place is run by a nice guy, and has offered to loan equipment for giving it a go. However, I suspect it's like the drug dealer giving a recovering addict some free samples. I just want to know how expensive a habit this will be. He has a proper helmet already. I assume he needs a suit, gloves, maybe shoes. Unsure what else for personal safety gear. Then he needs a kart. Unsure what is reasonable for consumables. What other accessories are needed is also uncertain. Trying to figure out how big of a whack I'd get hit with at start up.
A friend started his son in a program hosted by the local track outside Toronto where they paid an annual fee to run at events. They did not have to buy the karts until he eventually progressed up the ranks. I have no idea what the costs were, but they ran on a shoestring budget. By the time the son reached 17 years he was running his own kart in the nationals and travelling to events across Eastern Canada. Dad's Mazda6 wagon was the tow vehicle and they slept in a tent.
Edit.. Found this Ottawa website that might give you an idea of what to look for locally
http://www.nckc.net/about-nckc/
After selling my mid pack autocross car I decided to give karting a chance. For autocross you can't get much cheaper than a used straight rail dirt kart and a Harbor Freight 212 Predator engine. I've been top 5 once due to a super tight course where I didn't have to lift, but mostly still run mid pack overall. Consumables have been gas, oil, and tires. The tires are $100 for the set. My son's kart engine is stock, with the governor removed, and starts on the second pull every time. He's had zero mechanical DNFs in 2 seasons. The initial build cost for both karts, and their trailer, was around $1500. 4 strokes will be cheaper than 2 strokes. karting4cycle.com (mostly 4 stroke dirt racing) and ekartinnews.com (2 stroke and road racing) are great resources.
What's a straight rail dirt cart?
sachilles wrote: I have a 6, soon to be 7 year old. There are a couple of summer karting options locally. I'm not looking to groom him into a super racer....I just want him to have fun, if he wants to do it. I'm ignorant of karting. What sort of budget will we need to have fun at the local track? Learn me o great GRM collective.
I started racing karts in 1991. Very first race ever was in a laydown 125cc shifter kart at mid-ohio!
So much fun!!! Been racing karts and cars ever since. About 6 years ago my Oldest son, now 10, wanted to try. Well I wanted him to try it...
I rented him a kid kart from our local track for an hour as a test. He liked it well enough. So I bought a couple(theres a reason) used kids karts from craigslist. Both came with LOTS of spares, including engines, clutches, specific tools, tires, stands, etc, etc... I did the GRM thing, and sold off all the bits I didn't need, and ended up with a complete kart setup for free and cash in my pocket. I spent around a grand for each good used setup with spares. I wouldn't spend more than that. There's plenty for sale. As for entry fee's its tough to say. Just check with your local track and see what they charge. For example one of the local tracks has its own series and is quite a bit more expensive. Entries are around $80 per class per race day. Practice is $50 per Saturday. Another track is a club run even and cost are way cheaper. $35 per race and $10 per practice day. Every track is different. As for kart maintenance plan on going through a used kart before you race it. So front and rear bearings, chain, sprocket, and brake pads. So that's about $100. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE AVOID the competitive dad pitfall. You DO NOT NEED a blueprinted engine, carbon fiber axle, lightweight rear brake assy, mychron digi dash with gps track mapping, etc etc etc... If your looking to have fun, find a good kart, get a good helmet(read comfortable), chest protector, gloves, and a jacket. Make sure the kart is in good working order and you don't have wrench on it at the track. Kids don't have much patience or understanding of a broken kart. At track maintenance should consist of tire pressures, lubing and adjusting the chain, and adding fuel. Go for lots of practice days. My son has literally driven over 300 laps of an 0.8 mile road course in one day!
I didn't push racing till he was ready. He still prefers practice days.
Anyway, after all this, as for budget I would say
$1000.00 for a decent kart with spares
another 2 to $300 for safety equipment
$??? trailer/truck/hatchback to transport it
$$$ entry fees x # of races you want to do
another few hundred for kart maintenance.
After the first year, its just entry fees and maintenance. If you want to have the most fun possible, get a kart for both of you!
This year there will be three of us racing. Myself, my 7 year old, and my 10 year old. Can't wait, gonna be a fun year.
Good luck
Paul
paulmpetrun wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE AVOID the competitive dad pitfall. You DO NOT NEED a blueprinted engine, carbon fiber axle, lightweight rear brake assy, mychron digi dash with gps track mapping, etc etc etc...
This is exactly what I refuse to get involved in. I don't want to put my kids into a situation where every other dad (or mom, let's be PC here...) is hypercompetitive and my kid has zero chance to even have a respectable finish simply because we didn't spend what they did or go to the ridiculous lengths they did. Hence why I'd love a spec series of some kind where the organizer provides the kart, or something like that where everyone has basically the same stuff.
Besides the indoor commercial tracks here, I have no clue where karting is done. I'll have to start looking into it. Hell, I'm in Atlanta, racing is popular here. There's got to be something.
It's as expensive as you want to make it. My son started at 6 and is now 14. We had to take a year off because it just cost too much for us to continue to run and may have to next year. Just like auto racing, speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?
Let me see if I can clear up some misconceptions and confirm some truths. 99% of which will be common sense, but if you hear some of these dads talk….
1 - Most tracks have kids start in the Kid Kart class. It uses a 50cc Comer 2-stroke motor. Stock out of the box a new one will run you about $1100. Used are anywhere from $300 up to $5000. Yes, there are guys spending $5000 on a 50cc two stroke motor for their 6 year old kid to run. AND if you take to those guys, they’ll tell you that you HAVE to run one of those motors to be competitive. It’s BS to a point. (More on that later).
2 - A new kid kart chassis is about $2500. Used, again, are $300 to $3000. Be leery of a “winning” chassis. Honestly, a fast kid can drive anything fast and buying their equipment won’t instantly make you’re kid fast.
3 - Check your local track for used karts and motors. You could probably pick up a complete kart for $1000, more if it comes with lots of wheels, tires, extras, etc. Kid karts generally hold their value well. One thing to watch for is track support. Find out what chassis brand everyone else runs or your local kart shop sells. Too often, people will show up with a kart they bought of eBay and have something break and not be able to get parts to fix it that day. All karters will have spares…..
4 - Make sure it’s a Snell approved full face helmet. No sanctioning body will allow him to race without it. Snell motorcycle helmets work well (karts don’t require fire protection) because they can be tried on and bought at a motorcycle shop and offer a bigger eye port to see. That’s what my son has used his entire time racing.
5 - You’ll need a neck brace. Anything from a $20 foam donut to a $400 Leatt brace
6 - At that age, he’ll need a chest protector and probably a rib protector. Figure $100-200 depending on brand for new (again, used would work fine)
7 - Gloves are under $50 new
8 - Suit can be $100 for a eBay special (make sure it’s the right size and CIK certified) up to $1000 for a custom sewn suit with graphics.
9 - Shoes can be any high top shoe. Wrestling shoes are as cheap as $20 at the local sports shop (get leather) and kart shoes can be upwards of $200. Remember that they will grow out of them quick and that the soles are paper thin. Running around the paddock with his friends will wear them out quickly.
10 - Depending on your track, fuel can be race spec ($15/gallon plus $20 bottle of oil) or pump spec with a specific ($20/liter) oil. Kid karts don’t burn up a bunch of fuel.
11 - Tires are $175/set. Again, depending on track rules. Some have spec tires, some have open tires, some require a new set for each race weekend, some don’t. They are all the same size on a kid kart and are the same size as a full size kart front tires. So, you could buy just the fronts from a full size that the rears are worn out on to save some $$ for practice and/or racing
12 - Tools you’ve probably got, but there will be some specific ones eventually.
13 - Spares can be bodywork, motors, wheels, axles, hubs, etc. Partly on replacing broken but mainly on different tuning depending on track conditions.
Are you scared off yet?
Now, with the above, you can see that there is a huge range of money to spend. You’ll see guys show up with 1-ton trucks and fifth wheel rigs and pull out a kid kart with others showing up with a kart in the back of a truck or towed on a little trailer behind a Mini Cooper (that was us). Yeah, you can buy all the top dollar stuff and those $5k motors are fast, but you’re kid won’t learn how to drive so when they move up to a more “spec” class, they’ll be slow. Often times, that’s when you’ll hear the “cheating” word come out. Case in point, there was a track that our series had a race at. There was a local girl who would drive her kart around while daddy raced his Porsche. They never did anything to the kart but put gas in it. She never raced with anyone else, just by herself on the track. She’d been driving about 6 months and had been on track “maybe” 10 times. Our series showed up with a group of kids that had been racing for 2-3 years. She was lapped quickly. Dad started complaining that we were ALL cheating and that he needed to go spend big money to get her competitive. All she needed was seat time. So, you can see where guys with more money than sense can start driving up the costs and scare off anyone wanting to get into the sport. Plus, it’s hard to drop a kid in a kart the first time and watch them get lapped by faster kids. BUT, if you’ve been around racing, you’ll know that first time drivers take a while to get fast PLUS you have to remember the kid is learning to drive at the same time!! Most adults have been driving for a while before getting in a race car….
I've told new people coming in that if their kid gets into it, pray they're not any good as that's when it gets expensive. Let me see if I can explain both sides.
My son started and it was going to be just local races. He drove a LOT by himself on the track. He didn’t want to do anything but drive. First race outside of our local track he won. We started going to other tracks around Texas and he kept winning. Saved up and went to an international race in Florida. Set him down for his first practice session behind a kid named E. Fittipaldi (yeah, the grandson). My son finished 6th the first day and 5th the second. Came back to our local tracks and instead of winning by a kart length or two, he was winning by half a lap. So, we started traveling to national races. Travel, spares, multiple motors, etc. rival the cost of racing a car.
We could have just kept him on the local tracks, not travelled and probably not spent very much. But it was obvious he had a passion for it and a strive to do well, so I fed it as best as my wallet (and often beyond) would allow. He’s had a fantastic experience, met Michael Schumacher, traveled all over the US and met hundreds of people. We STILL run it on a shoestring compared to others. Sleeping in cheap motels (or our trailer), grabbing tire cast offs that other teams get rid of, getting his chassis bent back into shape, etc. Still relatively competitive with guys who show up with 18-wheelers, new tires every practice session, $50k+ worth of motors, mechanics, tuners and engine builders on daddy’s dime, etc. We don’t beat them at that level, but we’re not too far off.
I could talk for HOURS about this sport....
-Rob
Our family has used the SCCA model: FJC, FJB and FJA. In our case the first tier, FJC was not going to work. The kart works for the younger kids and those that are smaller. We were not in a hurry to spend money for everything from safety gear to support equipment that ends up getting out grown faster than it's used up.
That said I found a full size kart that with the addition of a junior seat will work from FJB ( up to 12 ) and then FJA ( up to 16 ). After 5 events in 2015 I would say my son is having fun and wants to get back in "his" kart as soon as possible. And, he is not fast. In fact at the last event I had a number of "Dad's" offer to help me tune the motor. And everything they have offered has worked to make the pit crew more effective. Yes, they want both of us to have a good time.
The World Formula Briggs and Stratton motor is not complicated, just do not think that it's as easy as add gas and pull the cord. Ok, it not the motor that provides the learning curve, it's the carburetor.
No, the jets. Add the float height. Then the mixture screw. Finish by the idle adjustment. After each session?
Yes, I have found to shop that rebuilt the engine right before I bought the kart. And they are more than willing to do a leak down at no cost, I just need to bring them the engine. What else could I learn ...
This one is on my to do list as well with the boys 5 & 6 being interested. Ran into a great guy at Cars N Coffee this last Saturday who shared some details about our local kart track an hr from Cincinnati in Camden. Gonna get up there the next sunny weekend to talk with some other parents and their kids starting out.
In reply to 84FSP:
I don't know anything about carts but if coming out of Cincinnati, there is a huge cart track in New Castle, IN that I see right off the I-70. That should be within 1.5 hours of Cincinnati. Looks like an impressive facility.
http://www.newcastleraceway.com.
JohnRW1621 wrote: In reply to 84FSP: I don't know anything about carts but if coming out of Cincinnati, there is a huge cart track in New Castle, IN that I see right off the I-70. That should be within 1.5 hours of Cincinnati. Looks like an impressive facility. http://www.newcastleraceway.com.
New Castle is an awesome track. There have been several national races there. My son and I have been there a couple of times. They host a enduro every year called Robopong that usually has pro NASCAR and Indy guys competing in it with a Dan Wheldon charity going on at the same time.
I think they also offer rental race karts (vs the rental concession karts) to get anyone a chance to drive a real race kart and see if they like it.
-Rob
We were into this when Tom was young. We wrote two or three good articles on the scene and covered budget pretty well. Email or call Gary at our office, and he can dig up the back issues. Gary@GrassrootsMotorsports.com (386) 239-0523.
In reply to Tim Suddard: I suspect I have the back issue. Is there a search tool to figure out what issue they might be in?
Klayfish wrote: What's a straight rail dirt cart?
The kind of kart you generally picture where the frame rails are parallel to each other. Many circle track karters have gone to an offset chassis (frame bulges out on the left side) which is designed to turn left better than right, leaving a supply of used straight rail karts collecting dust.
How many girls are out there racing? Id tempted to see if my daughter would be into it.
In Southern California, via the SCCA format, we have three young ladies running. In FJB my son needs to find seven seconds to get close. In FJA one of the ladies skirted the rest of the class at the last event. Next year she move's into her dad's STS car, she is going to be fun to watch at the Nationals.
rob_lewis wrote: It's as expensive as you want to make it. You’ll see guys show up with 1-ton trucks and fifth wheel rigs and pull out a kid kart with others showing up with a kart in the back of a truck or towed on a little trailer behind a Mini Cooper.
No personal experience, but I have seen some kart competitions out at Beaver Run/PittRace. I was amazed at the 5th wheel toy haulers with 5 carts inside and a full SnapOn tool chest for one kid...but if you want to be the next Lewis Hamilton I guess that's what you have to do. I also saw plenty of dads pulling carts out of the back of the Vista Cruiser. The younger kids did not seem to care where their kart came from, only that they were out there racing and having fun.
Sounds like GRM needs to start a feeder series with a $1000 expense cap and divisions by experience!
funny that lewis hamiltons dad didn't have any of that stuff. They started wrenching on the Kart in their garage. (read watch this http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-lewis-hamilton/) They totally boot strapped it togehter. No toy hauler. No snapon stuff (until he started winning big that is).
java230 wrote: How many girls are out there racing? Id tempted to see if my daughter would be into it.
I can't speak for autocross (and I'm not sure if the OP's question was for that or track based karts), but there are a number of VERY quick girls in the upper karting ranks in the US. Ashley Rogero immediately comes to mind as one that's podiumed at multiple national championships and is an incredible driver.
-Rob
I'm originally speaking about at track karting versus autocross. Honestly, autocross would be good as well. Selfishly, there is a new organization that will do tuesday evening karting in my area, which is ideal. As the other one is on the weekend, and autocross would be weekend as well. I work in racing and am away many weekends. When home I have my own racing(hillclimb) on some weekends. I envision the Tuesday evening karting, with a random autocross every once in a while where it fits all schedules. I'm sort of assuming that whatever track kart he'd run could find a class to run in at the local autocrosses.
sachilles wrote: I'm originally speaking about at track karting versus autocross. Honestly, autocross would be good as well. Selfishly, there is a new organization that will do tuesday evening karting in my area, which is ideal. As the other one is on the weekend, and autocross would be weekend as well. I work in racing and am away many weekends. When home I have my own racing(hillclimb) on some weekends. I envision the Tuesday evening karting, with a random autocross every once in a while where it fits all schedules. I'm sort of assuming that whatever track kart he'd run could find a class to run in at the local autocrosses.
Sounds like you're on the right track. Go to your local track, figure out what everyone runs and work from there. Autocross kart motors and track kart motors are often different (but not always), and there are about 20 different motor packages run across the country. It's easier to figure out what is run locally and stick with that than risk buying something nobody runs. Just like auto racing, you may love your Neon, but if you're the only one in the class, it's not much fun to see how you stack up.
Again, like with cars, take all advice with a grain of salt and don't get too wrapped up in what someone's trying to sell you.
Feel free to ping me if you have questions or get confused. I love karting and think it's an awesome sport, but it's easy to get caught up in the fervor and costs.....
-Rob
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