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Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 3:49 p.m.

This is NOT the post that I thought I'd be writing today. Yesterday, I spent over $450 to not-buy a Porsche.

About every 18 months, I go into need-to-get-a-Porsche mode. I buy all of the books, read all of the online buyer's guides and generally scare myself out of ever getting involved with one. I've even gone so far as to sell the books on e-Bay, only to buy them again a year and a half later.

This summer, it started again. I did all my reading and said, "Screw it. I'm doing this". Incidentally, this began before the Budget Supercar issue came out.

The plan was to check out a bunch of cars and then try to make the purchase near Christmas, when no one else is shopping for rear wheel drive sports cars in New England.

I decided what I wanted and found a beautiful, one owner car back in August, but it was beyond my budget. The ad had only been posted once and it expired shortly after I drove the car. A few month's later, I got an e-mail from the seller stating that the car had been relisted and the price had dropped by $3000. I waited a few days, sent a "thank you, I'll think about it" reply. At the same time, I was finalizing the sale of my Miata, to free up some cash and a parking place.

I went back to drive the car again. The body and interior were near perfect. The car had never been hit and the original paint was still bright and scratch free. It sounded great, drove well and there were a stack of receipts going back to the day that the car was purchased. I also learned that the seller had gotten frustrated by scam offers on Craigslist and had stopped listing the car.

Every Porsche book tells you never to buy one of these car without having a Pre-Purchase Inspection done at a Porsche shop. The seller wasn't an enthusiast, just someone who had the cash to buy a great car back in the day. I explained about the need for a PPI and the seller didn't think it was necessary, but agreed after I persisted and offered to pay for it.

The logistics of getting the PPI, however were driving me crazy. The car wasn't registered and was about an hour away. I needed to trailer it there. I also had to coordinate around my work schedule, the seller's schedule, the shop's schedule and the winter weather. I almost decided to blow off the PPI and just make a slightly lower offer, based on the car's overall condition and the extensive number of receipts, but we were finally able to set it up for yesterday.

I towed the car to a very well respected local Porsche shop for the four and a half hour PPI. Then I went home, started nervously counting my money and tried to figure what kind of offer to make on the car.

As I mentioned, the PPI cost me over $450.

But it saved me over twenty thousand.

The inspection found a broken head stud on one cylinder (not an uncommon problem on an air cooled Porsche) and and another cylinder with a 95% leak down. It was now a five cylinder, soon to be four. They told me that I would need to budget around $8000 for a complete rebuild of the engine, plus about $2000 more for various other odds and ends around the car. I thanked them and gladly handed them my cash for the PPI.

I was heartbroken, but the seller was devastated; not angry, but shocked and saddened. I am fully convinced that the car had been very well cared for and presented honestly. I am certain that there was no intention to rip me off.

These cars can get scary expensive in a hurry. It had every indication of being a perfect car, but, like some of my former girlfriends, it was a hot, sexy train wreck.

So, bottom line, if you're thinking about a 911, keep a little extra cash in the budget for a Pre-Purchase Inspection. The experts know what they're talking about.

I'm sure that someone will reply with the tired cliche "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche". This was not a cheap Porsche.

The experience sent enough of a shock through my system to make me reconsider (again) whether or not I want to get involved with one of these cars.

Oddly enough, the new Flyin' Miata catalog arrived in the mail today.

Jamesc2123
Jamesc2123 New Reader
12/16/08 3:52 p.m.
Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 3:54 p.m.
Jamesc2123 wrote: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/wrx-powered-porsche-911-build/5760/page1/

I've seen it. I already have a WRX donor in my garage, and I'd love a Porscharu, but this car is really too nice for that.

Cotton
Cotton Reader
12/16/08 4:11 p.m.

I'm on my 3rd Porsche. I didn't get a PPI on the 1st one and really really learned my lesson. I still have the other 2 and the PPIs were worth every penny.

ManofFewWords
ManofFewWords Reader
12/16/08 4:23 p.m.

Seller didn't even offer to split it?

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 4:27 p.m.
ManofFewWords wrote: Seller didn't even offer to split it?

I made it clear ahead of time that I would pay for it, no matter how things turned out. I was so relieved that it seemed like a bargain.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo New Reader
12/16/08 4:29 p.m.

How did the car run well while being so down on power?

walterj
walterj HalfDork
12/16/08 4:30 p.m.

I'd have at least made the offer for a 10k discount... you know it really doesn't cost that if you have a machine shop you trust and some tools, right?

They are 'spensive but a little DIYcan get that job done for 2-3k.

walterj
walterj HalfDork
12/16/08 4:32 p.m.

Just out of curiosity... was this an early 964 (89/90)?

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 4:38 p.m.
walterj wrote: Just out of curiosity... was this an early 964 (89/90)?

No, it was a Carrera 3.2 with a G50. I know enough to stay away from the early 964's. And I'm fairly certain that $2-3k wouldn't have gotten the job done, as I would have started with the while-you're-in- theres (new clutch, etc).

mtn
mtn Dork
12/16/08 4:47 p.m.

http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Plated-Porsche-Small-Fortune-Misadventures/dp/1592282563

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 4:53 p.m.

the question remains: how well did it run? inquiring minds, you know....

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 5:00 p.m.
mtn wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Plated-Porsche-Small-Fortune-Misadventures/dp/1592282563

Bought it. Gave it away. Bought it again.

I didn't push the car really hard, but it seemed to run well. The cars sound different enough so that I couldn't detect anything wrong by ear. Surprisingly, there didn't seem to be excessive smoke or oil leaks, either.

walterj
walterj HalfDork
12/16/08 5:04 p.m.
Woody wrote:
walterj wrote: Just out of curiosity... was this an early 964 (89/90)?
No, it was a Carrera 3.2 with a G50. I know enough to stay away from the early 964's. And I'm fairly certain that $2-3k wouldn't have gotten the job done, as I would have started with the while-you're-in- theres (new clutch, etc).

That car doesn't need a total rebuild - it needs some head work and new, proper studs so if you do the work its not a huge expense. An air cooled older carrera is as simple as an anvil in operation... no fancy dual variable valve timing, etc...

Pulling the motor is no big deal and clutches cost what they cost... but they don't need to be replaced as often as people do, the while you are in there list for a shop is sometimes a little aggressive and unquestioned by people who think removing an engine is a big deal. I'm not saying you should have bought that car but don't be afraid of them... they are awesome.

I'm an early 964 owner and as long as the myth that they suck continues... I have my pick of beautiful, fast cars for well under 20k.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 5:22 p.m.
That car doesn't need a total rebuild - it needs some head work and new, proper studs so if you do the work its not a huge expense.

If the stud is broken off flush with the block it does.

And I didn't mean to imply that 964's are junk, Porsche just made a mistake by skipping the head gaskets on the early ones. They're still nice cars, I just don't want one.

walterj
walterj HalfDork
12/16/08 6:08 p.m.
Woody wrote: If the stud is broken off flush with the block it does.

No, you don't need to mess with the bottom (middle?) end, you just need to remove the stud, chase the thread, etc... even if you do - its not that expensive unless you need to call Porsche up for parts of an engine. As long as a machine shop can handle it - its not too bad. Also - the 3.2 core is worth probably 6K so if you absolutely had to you could get a rebuilt motor for the difference.

Like I said... not saying you should have bought the car but don't run away from all of them. A well done 3.2 is indestructible.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 6:38 p.m.

Hmmmm..................

P71
P71 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
12/16/08 7:18 p.m.

$20K can get you a LOT of other car! That said, old air-cooled 911's are truly cool and unique cars and I think you made the right choice here. What's the seller going to do?

924guy
924guy HalfDork
12/16/08 7:29 p.m.

Woody: kudos for going with a ppi...ive got a great (as in honest!) contact in ny that might have some leads for you if you decide to continue your quest.

hmm... for that $450 you couldve got a complete 924 and ensured years of agony while enjoying it... for another grand you could find a good running 924 turbo and with a little work, have something that can compete with most base 911's up to the mid 90's..intrigued? check out this one, http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/954113272.html builder is a stand up guy, ive done some parts trading with him in the past, car is an animal... sorry, couldn't resist flying the flag..

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 7:48 p.m.

I think that the 924 Turbo was the first Porsche that I fell in love with. I used to walk past one on my way home from middle school. I had a full line 1982 Porsche brochure that was tacked to my bedroom wall for years. Eventually, my eyes wandered over to the 911SC on the opposite page. I was thinking about that brochure last week and I bought another on eBay just the other day!

But...I'm not looking for anything else at this point.

joepaluch
joepaluch New Reader
12/16/08 8:13 p.m.

Hey keep looking and find the right car for you.

The 88 944 Turbo S I bought back in 1997 has been a great car for me in last almost 12 years. I never had a PPI done, but I did trust the owner completely. In fact so much so I bought two cars from him and we became friends. Crazy fact was that years later I sold one of those car back to him!

So find the right Porsche owner and right car and you will have a great experience. I will never be without a Porsche of sometype if I have anything to say about it.

benzbaron
benzbaron New Reader
12/16/08 8:18 p.m.

I really like the 911sc and they seem to hold their values pretty good. They don't seem to ever drop below 12k here though.

Too bad it cost you lots of money to have it checked but it would definitely cost more in the future don't they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/16/08 8:32 p.m.
benzbaron wrote: Too bad it cost you lots of money to have it checked but it would definitely cost more in the future don't they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I have no regrets at all about spending the money. It didn't even hurt to hand it over. I feel like I did the right thing for the right reason and the PPI did what it was supposed to.

But I felt bad for the car.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
12/16/08 9:26 p.m.

So, Woody, offer him five large less on the car and that should cover your expenses on a stud and a few misc. freshening up items. Busted stud at the block is no biggie. I've never done a Porch, but I've removed plenty-o busted bolts/studs. There's a section in Clip-n-Saves on my web page on it. I need to add the reverse drill bit trick. Anyway, if you can get to it, it isn't bad. And isn't that thing like VW bug based or something? 4 bolts holds the motor in? We pulled a VW motor at the campground once in Sturgis to do a clutch. Aligned it with a tree branch, set the timing with a hammer. She drove it home.

Or, buy one of these instead:

byron12
byron12 New Reader
12/17/08 4:42 a.m.

her you go right here.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___No-Reserve-1985-Lotus-Esprit-34K-orig-mi-rebuiltmotor_W0QQitemZ130276095732QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item130276095732&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

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