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Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 2:45 p.m.

I am looking at rebuilding the suspension on my Miata and considering shocks. Koni sells a sport shock and a more expensive racing shock. This will be a weekend car. I will be autocrossing and time trialing it. It will not be my daily driver but it may get driven to the track. Which shock would be better for this? Any other shocks to consider? 

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
7/28/20 2:53 p.m.

What springs?

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
7/28/20 2:58 p.m.

Are we talking complete rebuild as in springs and rates as well. 

The easy button is the fox shock setup from FM. Its dialed in out of the box and its bolt on and go. Not terribly more money in the long run as well if you need to do all four corners shocks and springs withteh Koni race versions running around 280$ a corner. 

https://www.flyinmiata.com/fox-suspension-for-na-chassis.html

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:04 p.m.
dps214 said:

What springs?

Not sure yet. Looking at the Flying Miata springs. 

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
7/28/20 3:07 p.m.

For something like that that's a pretty modest increase over stock the koni sports will do fine. Much of anything more than that and you'd want the race dampers, at which point wearymicrobe's point about the fox dampers becomes relevant.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:11 p.m.

So the Fox and Koni race are comparable and the Koni sports shocks a bit less. 

What springs rates would work with the racing shocks? 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/28/20 3:14 p.m.

I would check to make sure the Koni Race are available right now. Like, talk to Koni about it. I believe they had some interruption in their supply a while back, although that might have been the real race Race shocks.

For the FM springs, the Koni Sports will work nicely. I would be concerned about shortened bodies on the Race.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:18 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

There is more than one kind of Koni Race shocks? 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:20 p.m.

I have Bilsteins on there now but they are well worn. Is rebuilding those an option or are the Konis that much better. I have Konis on my 914 and I like them. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/28/20 3:24 p.m.

I've had a couple of FM suspension options (all paid for out of my own pocket) - I had the Koni Sports with the FM springs, and I've had the VMaxx Classic. Based on experience with NB Mazdaspeed Billies, I would say both are better. Sadly I've not had the Fox suspension, but who know when I end up with another Miata.

Oh, and both suspension options did see track use. I'm not a big Autocross person so I don't think I auto-x'd either one of them.

If you're talking Autocross, does classing matter? Because going to coilovers may put you in a class that you may not want to end up in.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:30 p.m.
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

I've had a couple of FM suspension options (all paid for out of my own pocket) - I had the Koni Sports with the FM springs, and I've had the VMaxx Classic. Based on experience with NB Mazdaspeed Billies, I would say both are better. Sadly I've not had the Fox suspension, but who know when I end up with another Miata.

Oh, and both suspension options did see track use. I'm not a big Autocross person so I don't think I auto-x'd either one of them.

If you're talking Autocross, does classing matter? Because going to coilovers may put you in a class that you may not want to end up in.

Yeah. Getting bumped up a class would matter right now because I am running a stock motor. In the future, who knows. If the engine goes I might swap something else in. Maybe a 1.8. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/28/20 3:35 p.m.
Snowdoggie said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

There is more than one kind of Koni Race shocks? 

Yes.

moxnix
moxnix HalfDork
7/28/20 3:47 p.m.
Snowdoggie said:
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

I've had a couple of FM suspension options (all paid for out of my own pocket) - I had the Koni Sports with the FM springs, and I've had the VMaxx Classic. Based on experience with NB Mazdaspeed Billies, I would say both are better. Sadly I've not had the Fox suspension, but who know when I end up with another Miata.

Oh, and both suspension options did see track use. I'm not a big Autocross person so I don't think I auto-x'd either one of them.

If you're talking Autocross, does classing matter? Because going to coilovers may put you in a class that you may not want to end up in.

Yeah. Getting bumped up a class would matter right now because I am running a stock motor. In the future, who knows. If the engine goes I might swap something else in. Maybe a 1.8. 

For autocross if you are changing the springs anyway I can't think of where it would make a difference in classing between doing springs+shocks vs full coil over. 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 3:48 p.m.

I saw these on another one of their sites. 

https://www.koni-na.com/en-US/NorthAmerica/Products/Cars/List/?t=KoniPartSearch&q=1992&m=395&mk=25&mt=1

The number on these is 8041 1204RACE. These are not the real race shocks? 

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/28/20 3:57 p.m.

They might be "RACE (TM)" shocks but if you're referring to shocks for race cars (you know, race shocks) they're not the only option. You originally specified racing shocks. There are a lot of options there as my previous link indicates. Blame the Koni marketing guys for this potential confusion.

I think you need to talk to Koni.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/28/20 4:23 p.m.

Will check with Koni to see what is what and what is available. The sport shocks might actually be good enough. I will be running time trials with SCCA and NASA but I don't see going Spec Miata or any wheel to wheel stuff. If I do any racing at all, it will be with the vintage club. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
7/28/20 4:33 p.m.

If you are going Spec Miata, then you have to run a very specific suspension setup that has 0% Koni content. It's a good idea to make that determination before modifying the car.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/28/20 6:51 p.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie :

I'm running 800lbs front/650lbs rear on Koni Race shocks. I also have the RB hollow front swaybar & mounts, no rear bar, ISC top hats, Baur extended ball joints, and R-package tie rod ends. For a semi-budget build(vs full-STS prep) it's amazing, and rides better than stock on the street. 

bmw88rider (Forum Supporter)
bmw88rider (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
7/28/20 7:02 p.m.

I am running something very similar to you Pete.  I am running Xida XL as I keep the car a little closer to stock ride height with the potholes here. Only other difference is the steering rack spacer to further reduce bump steer. 

 

Second best handling miata I've had. Only thing that was better was my NC V8 conversion with the fox shocks and keith's setup. 

jwagner (Forum Supporter)
jwagner (Forum Supporter) Reader
7/28/20 9:16 p.m.

I had a set of Koni yellows (sports) on the shelf as well as a set of racing beat sway bars.  The easy button was FM springs, which seem to be the stiffest OEM type spring available.  This replaced an original '95 R Bilstein suspension.  Ride is much better now that I'm not on the bump stops all the time, and the handling is a whole lot better on a dual purpose street/track car.  This is not the best performing setup for autocross and track, but a decent compromise that didn't cost me much. 

If I didn't have the shocks sitting on a shelf I definitely would have bought a set of coilovers.

edit:  Since I mentioned the RB sway bars I should probably also mention that they were awful until I swapped the back RB bar out for a stock 11mm OEM bar.  The stiffer RB bar made a great drifting machine, but a crappy time trial car.  The car is now reasonably balanced.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/29/20 8:12 a.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Snowdoggie :

I'm running 800lbs front/650lbs rear on Koni Race shocks. I also have the RB hollow front swaybar & mounts, no rear bar, ISC top hats, Baur extended ball joints, and R-package tie rod ends. For a semi-budget build(vs full-STS prep) it's amazing, and rides better than stock on the street. 

I was like "Whoa, that's a lot of rear rate" then read no rear bar. 

I ran 800/500 with the 2nd biggest RB bar up front and the MSM bar out back, on XIDAs. The car was fantastic. 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
7/29/20 10:46 a.m.
Snowdoggie said:
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

I've had a couple of FM suspension options (all paid for out of my own pocket) - I had the Koni Sports with the FM springs, and I've had the VMaxx Classic. Based on experience with NB Mazdaspeed Billies, I would say both are better. Sadly I've not had the Fox suspension, but who know when I end up with another Miata.

Oh, and both suspension options did see track use. I'm not a big Autocross person so I don't think I auto-x'd either one of them.

If you're talking Autocross, does classing matter? Because going to coilovers may put you in a class that you may not want to end up in.

Yeah. Getting bumped up a class would matter right now because I am running a stock motor. In the future, who knows. If the engine goes I might swap something else in. Maybe a 1.8. 

So what class are you running now and what is your goal?  (That 1.8 swap sends your to CSP territory btw)  

Otherwise a mostly stock 1.6 Miata is an underdog in ES (stock springs will keep it tall and squishy)  It's real home is STS, just be aware that track days in a stockish powered 1.6 will be leisurely.  Then the above mentioned CSP.  Forced induction means SSM. etc etc

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Reader
7/29/20 10:52 a.m.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) said:
Snowdoggie said:
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:

I've had a couple of FM suspension options (all paid for out of my own pocket) - I had the Koni Sports with the FM springs, and I've had the VMaxx Classic. Based on experience with NB Mazdaspeed Billies, I would say both are better. Sadly I've not had the Fox suspension, but who know when I end up with another Miata.

Oh, and both suspension options did see track use. I'm not a big Autocross person so I don't think I auto-x'd either one of them.

If you're talking Autocross, does classing matter? Because going to coilovers may put you in a class that you may not want to end up in.

Yeah. Getting bumped up a class would matter right now because I am running a stock motor. In the future, who knows. If the engine goes I might swap something else in. Maybe a 1.8. 

So what class are you running now and what is your goal?  (That 1.8 swap sends your to CSP territory btw)  

Otherwise a mostly stock 1.6 Miata is an underdog in ES (stock springs will keep it tall and squishy)  It's real home is STS, just be aware that track days in a stockish powered 1.6 will be leisurely.  Then the above mentioned CSP.  Forced induction means SSM. etc etc

I really want to get it out there first, then develop the car as I develop as a driver. I am starting with suspension. I also have a hardtop, a racing seat and a cage ready to go on. Yeah. I know. The cage is overkill but I am all about safety on the track days. 

The car has already been run in ES with worn out springs in the back and cheap tires. It has also been on the track on some lapping days with PCA and isn't all that much fun with a worn suspension. STS is a possibility after some work on it. 

What class do I go in if I swap an LS3 in it if a 1.8 puts me into CSP? 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
7/29/20 11:11 a.m.

SSM.  Huge aero and Hoosiers.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
7/29/20 11:14 a.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie :

I'm not an expert on SCCA rules, but I suspect the LS3 would put you in EMod, or some such class. See Loosecannon's MG build for an idea of how badly outclassed you would be. Others will have more detailed knowledge than me.

Edit: See, Jeremy knows better.

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