tjthom
tjthom New Reader
11/21/09 8:50 a.m.

My son is thinking later model Jetta for his next car.

Miata, Honda, I can help...but when it comes to VW I got nothing....

What should the young man be on the lookout for?

Travis_K
Travis_K Dork
11/21/09 2:56 p.m.
tjthom wrote: What should the young man be on the lookout for?
 Something other than an Mk4 Jetta?  Most people i know of dont like them much.  I know the automatics should be avoided, and if they are anything like the Mk3, the 2.0 5 speeds usually need a clutch becasue the leaky valve cover gasket has filled it with oil.
vwturbo
vwturbo New Reader
11/21/09 6:55 p.m.

What is he looking at? The mk4 (1999.5 - 2006) or the mk5 (2006-onward)? They are two totally different animals. If he's looking for a vehicle to have fun with I'd avoid the mk5 Jetta and go straight for the mk5 Golf/Rabbit. Same power, but much less weight. Both are a significant advancement over the mk4s. Lots of variables at play here... what are his reasons for one? I've had experience with every generation between mk2 - mk5. No experience with automatics, but I avoid them like the plague.

1966stang
1966stang New Reader
11/21/09 7:35 p.m.

+1 on avoiding the VW automatics. I would try to find a low miles TDI with a good maint. record.

Or get a Golf, as someone else said.

Chris

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Reader
11/21/09 10:14 p.m.

I agree that the Mk5 rabbit/golf is a different animal than the Jetta. My wife just HAD to have the new rabbit when it came out and the dealership didnt have a 5spd one in stock so they brought one in from a couple of hundred miles away. During the wait they gave us a Jetta and after driving it I was simply terrified about what we had done. Rear visibility was terrible..like dodge intrepid level of awfulness. It was just heavy and slow and insipid. The next day when the 4dr rabbit showed up I was delighted in that it...compared to the Jetta was fun to drive and almost "lively". A bit later I had to drive a friends 2dr rabbit and was blown away by how much lighter and more nimble it felt than ours.

I did end up trading the 2006 MK5 rabbit in on a 2001 GTI less than a year and 17k miles later because the rabbit got terrible milage (about 15mpg city), the interior didnt hold up (polyester that pilled up like an old blanket) it ate front tires in less than 12K miles with my wife driving it gingerly, and the 2.5 liter 150hp motor revved like a diesel. We have not regretted the decision.

Travis_K
Travis_K Dork
11/22/09 3:57 a.m.

Unless the new ones are terrible (I have only heard good things, but no personal experience), it would be better to pay $23k for a brand new tdi than 18k for a 100k miles mk4 TDI imo.

curtis73
curtis73 HalfDork
11/22/09 12:45 p.m.

I personally wouldn't own anything past an A2. Our shop would go broke if it weren't for 98-2008 VWs.

tjthom
tjthom New Reader
11/22/09 8:11 p.m.

Shared the posts with my son.

Thanks! He really appreciates your experience and opinion.

He's going to give it quite a bit more thought! And think more about the Honda.

Best board there is!

1966stang
1966stang New Reader
11/22/09 8:52 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: Unless the new ones are terrible (I have only heard good things, but no personal experience), it would be better to pay $23k for a brand new tdi than 18k for a 100k miles mk4 TDI imo.

To me the only "newer" VW's worth owning are the MK 5 and MK 6 GTI's and the TDI's.

The 5 cyl is nothing to write home about...

And yes, I would probably buy new for a TDI.

Chris

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Reader
11/22/09 10:57 p.m.

I forgot to add my biggest pet peeve about the 2.5 motor. It does not decellerate. You lift your foot off the throttle at 55mph and the car just coasts, no compression braking whatsoever it just sails along as if you had depressed the clutch. I found this baffling. In 3rd gear if you take your foot off the gas at 40mph it will coast until it eventually slows to 20mph when it will suddenly and quite harshly decide to engine brake hard enough to make your head bounce off the steering wheel.

The VW techs I know say that it is by design and they cannot change it

vwturbo
vwturbo New Reader
11/22/09 11:32 p.m.
ditchdigger wrote: I forgot to add my biggest pet peeve about the 2.5 motor. It does not decellerate.

I've also noticed that the revs hang a bit on upshifts on the 2.5. It's possible that a chip might rectify it... dunno. I like the mk5 Jetta, but only as a highway car. It's why I've stuck with the mk3 Jetta (and the fact that they're really easy to work on with great parts interchangeability). However, the trick with older veedubs is finding one with little to no rust.

If you're interested in a TDI, buy a new one... I find that prices of used ones are inflated. An extra 4k for an additional 80-100k trouble-free miles is worth it.

Much like VW's, I prefer pre-2000 Civics and Integras for both their simplicity and their independent suspension (especially the double-a-arm, non-MacPherson setup up front).

curtis73
curtis73 HalfDork
11/23/09 12:09 a.m.

Just be prepared... VW did an excellent job of designing everything under the hood to be VW-only territory. All of the hoses use proprietary mounting that can't be bypassed with bulk hoses. They start failing at 60k, and they are insanely expensive. One of the first to go on the 2.8 V6 is the PCV hose. It is a very complex molded piece of corrugated plastic tubing that costs $180 wholesale. The other thing that always goes bad on VWs is the secondary air injection hoses. There is a particular set of three hoses in a special harness that go for $78 wholesale, and it includes a tiny piece of plastic, 3" of steel line, and 9" of molded rubber hose.... and they can't be ordered separately.

They did an incredible job of making all of the hoses different sizes at each end and each junction, so replacing these brittle pathetic pieces can't really be done at home depot or Auto Zone. It really requires using VW parts.

Couple that with squeaky, plastic interiors that smell like crayons, interior finishes that turn gummy and scrape off, and suspension bushings that are complex and cast integral with the control arms (more VW price gouging), and you won't see me own one.

Don't even get me started on $1500 ABS modules that fail religiously, or instrument clusters that die at 50k. How about upholstery that peels off the armrest at 70k, head gaskets on 1.8T and 2.0L engines all the time. How about timing belt changes listed at 5.8 hours compared to most other japanese engines being listed between 2.7 and 3.8 hours. For cripes sake, there are DOHC V6s out there with four cams, four idler pulleys, and two tensioners that require less time to change than a 1.8T with two idlers, one tensioner, and a single cam.

Not to mention, an aftermarket stereo installed properly in a 96-up VW can render it un-smoggable. The factory radio diagnostics default the low-voltage VAG lead to the diag port to 12v. That makes communication with the ECM impossible.

If it sounds like I'm trying to talk him out of a VW, I am. If you want the crayon-smelling joy of owning a squeaky car that looks nice and are willing to pay 4-5 times as much for maintenance and repairs, by all means... get a VW.

Travis_K
Travis_K Dork
11/23/09 1:23 a.m.

I think a large number of vw owners fall into one of two groups. Either femals who buy them becasue they are cute, and trade them in when things start to go wrong, or people who buy them becasue would rather walk than drive anything else.

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