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Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
4/29/17 5:15 p.m.

Some back story, about to start my next build in the coming months. I bought my grandfathers 1964 Ford F100 short bed! So the truck is more or less stock, he daily drove it with the 292 Y block and three on the tree. No motor and trans anymore the 292 fan punched a hole in the radiator and got hot and it died.

We picked up a 5.0 and AOD from a LTD but it sat for a year after we pulled it and magically the front accessories and computer and some other stuff seemed to have disappeared. I would use this motor but I don't feel like tracking down all the missing parts and still have a 150hp motor and having to do more or less the same swap that I did in my RX7, I like learning new things!

So I was going to is 5.3 ls swap and then do a crown vic front end and rear axle swap. But then a light came on, why not put a 4.6 in the truck, just buy a 03-08 cop car then swap everything over? I don't want crazy power just a daily driver so the 4.6 will be fine. Plus I can hoon around in the vic before I swap it maybe do an autoX and drift it!

So after a few hours of looking around the internet I have not found much on running a 4.6 mod motor out of the crown vic body. There is tons of info and swap harnesses for the LS motors but where is the support for the mod motors?

How much of a wiring nightmare would the 4.6 swap be? I could go megasquirt but id like to keep the sock ecu for reliability and I don't want to have to tune it. Also I would assume the trans is computer controlled so I would have to get a trans controller as well. Ron francis has a harness for $800!!! That's a lot for a harness! I know people on ebay will thin out your harness for you and flash the ECU for a LS swap, anyone doing this kinda work for the ford motors?

So feed me some info and options on the mod motors! I like the idea and cost savings of just buying a Vic but the motor wiring seems to be the off putting part of the whole deal.

Thanks in advance!

bluej
bluej UltraDork
4/29/17 5:38 p.m.

Govdeals.com

Be patient and read the fine print for payment and pickup.

Love this idea :)

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
4/29/17 5:42 p.m.

Didn't clynn just do this?

If i recall, he used almost the entire crown vic. Frame, column, hvac, etc.

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
4/29/17 5:49 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Ya its common to do a body swap and keep everything from the vic but you have to put a bump in the bed and I want to keep it a working truck so keeping the bed in tact is a must.

They also did this on the the youtube show hotrod garage but again I want to keep the truck on the stock frame.

In reply to bluej:

I will! I will probly get one local from CL so I can drive it and look under it ect before I buy. There is no shortage of p71's out there!

dropstep
dropstep Dork
4/29/17 5:51 p.m.

Body swap it with an 03+ crown vic. Someone here did one, hot rod garage just did one.

STM317
STM317 Dork
4/29/17 9:00 p.m.

If you're starting with a running, driving donor, then can't you just swap everything necessary into the truck chassis? You'll be keeping the engine, trans, PCM, and fuel system. Of course, you might have to extend wires in some cases, but what else would need wiring?

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man SuperDork
4/29/17 9:37 p.m.

Do a body swap, and raise the bed floor and build supports + Honda Ridgeline-style compartments to get around the problem of "The Hump."

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
4/29/17 10:49 p.m.

In reply to STM317:

That would be the plan but I know with the LS computer you have to have VSS (security system) removed witch requires someone to flash the ECU, would that be something the mod motor would need? Also wanted to see if there are other options then the Ron francis harness. With that harness all you are doing is wiring it in yourself its just a few connectors and a ton of wires, there are a lot of full swap harnesses for LS1 motors so im just trying to see if anyone knows of more options.

Also a lot of form post on the harnesses but most of them are back from 2006 so not very up to date.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
4/29/17 10:53 p.m.

The hump from the Crown Vic frame swap is only for the Watt's link. Can you just take that out for something else like a panhard?

yupididit
yupididit Dork
4/29/17 11:22 p.m.

Why only look for crown vics? You have grand marques too. As well as the kajillion 4.6 trucks/suv that's are unwanted. And 5.4?

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
4/29/17 11:40 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

The gas tank and im guessing the rear spring hats are the main issue with fitting the bed. Also I plan on using the truck for a little bit of towing so having the leaf springs and the truck already has a hitch which is a plus.

In reply to yupididit:

The crown vic front end more or less bolts up on the f100's and the rear ends come with LSD's and disc breaks. So buy all my parts in one place! Otherwise I would just buy a late model truck and and swap the motor and rear end and call it a day. But with the vic I can get front end, rear end, motor trans, brake master cylinder, drive shaft.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/29/17 11:49 p.m.

If I was going to do this I would look for a V8 explorer that has rusted out. My local yards has a bunch of these that I was told can be had cheap. Take the motor trans and all the electronics. This is all very simple stuff so not many wires. I would even consider the rear end as it may be an upgrade from what is in your truck

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
4/30/17 12:08 a.m.

I think I've seen the swap for more of a working truck build done by cutting the truck frame somewhere around the firewall and grafting in the corresponding P71 frame section. Though personally I'd be more inclined to just drop in a 300 I6 and put another 3 speed in it because it's easier and column shifted manuals are too cool to remove.

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
4/30/17 12:25 a.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Nope no cutting of the frame like you would see with the s10 frame stub swap. Just unbolt the cross member and bolt it onto the truck. You only have to fab up rear control arm mounts and bolt tubes.

Also the vics already have a 8.8 like the explorers but the explorer 8.8 has an offset housing where as the vic is in the center.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
4/30/17 12:36 a.m.

That sounds right, I must have been thinking of the S10, in any event that's probably the way to go if you want P71 front suspension and have it still be a truck rather than a truck shaped hot rod.

Dr Ribs Revere
Dr Ribs Revere Reader
4/30/17 6:55 a.m.

Sounds like you need to start following the Hot Rod Garage series on a truck body to crow vic swap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDy8c_nICl8

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
4/30/17 9:02 a.m.

Print off factory wiring diagrams, buy a bunch of shrink tube, and attack it one wire at a time. It will take forever.

I wanted to use the stock 05 Express ecu in my 67 Camaro, and after about 30 hours, it works,including the security module and cluster.

As a money making proposution, its a no go.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
4/30/17 9:14 a.m.

http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/195995/welcome-blue-1968-ford-heart

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eBxE3VyXM4s

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
4/30/17 9:39 a.m.

In reply to Skervey: good point re the offset in the rear end. I forgot about that.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy PowerDork
4/30/17 10:13 a.m.

I think the easy way would be to find a RWD 5.0 explorer donor. Does this truck need a new rear axle? If not, it shouldn't be hard to get a drive shaft to connect the trans to the existing rear.

If you really want to go 4.6 though, I seem to recall that the real early ones from CVs had a bell housing bolt pattern compatible with Windsor block transmissions. So if you could find one of those earliest panther chassis with 4.6 as a donor, that might be an easy route too. Carb intake manifolds are out there if you want to not mess with the efi wiring.

STM317
STM317 Dork
4/30/17 10:48 a.m.

So, Fords anti-theft system in the late 90s and early 00s was known as PATS (Passive Anti Theft System). I'm not sure how long they used PATS in CVPIs but it wouldn't surprise me if it were used well into the 00s. Pats has a small chip in the ignition key, a module in the steering column, and the stock PCM. All 3 must be programmed to recognize each other and be present for the ignition to fire. So, you can use the stock stuff from your donor, or you can have PATS functions deleted from the PCM with a tuner. $400 for an SCT to delete the PATS and play with trans shifting seems like a better deal to me than an $800 custom harness.

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
5/1/17 7:03 a.m.

In reply to STM317:

Thank you that's exactly what I was wanting to know!

Ok I will start doing some reading on the SCT tuners, I remember hearing about them when I had my 01 mustang GT but that car was an appliance so I never messed with the motor. Just oil changes and tire rotations. Was a great highway cruiser though!

I out a 5.0 from an explorer into my 88 RX7 and I want to do something different so I can learn something new that's why im thinking 4.6 swap.

Also what stared this whole thing was a rear end swap, I wanted disc brakes on the truck and getting a disc brake for the 9" that truck has now would be about $300. That got me thinking I can get a whole 8.8 ford rear and have disc brakes and a LSD (huge plus for a 2wd truck. Then things snowballed from there and I figured buying a whole vic would be the cheapest way to go.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
5/1/17 7:14 a.m.

Don't forget the early town cars. They had the 4.6 with EFI and EDIS. It does not get any simpler than that.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
5/1/17 10:41 a.m.

You really don't need rear disc brakes on a pickup truck, maybe bigger drums from a newer one, but you're crazy to remove a 9 inch rear from something unless the housing is junk.

Skervey
Skervey HalfDork
5/1/17 8:13 p.m.

The 9" is bone stock so the gears are getting old 180k on them. The drums are shot so they would need to be replaced, might as well go ahead and upgrade to disc. I want to have an LSD, wait I will have an LSD I don't want to get a stuck on flat ground on wet grass plus burnouts are always better when both wheels spin.

So disc brakes are about $400, a LSD center section is $800... So $1200 for a rear end that will do what I want seems a bit steep. If I were to build the motor then yes by all means the 9" is the best rear end for putting down power. Stock 8.8 is said to hold 400-500hp at the strip and I don't drag race, im going to keep the motor stock so 250hp. Also the crown vic front end that im going to use is wider then the stock truck front end so the vic rear end will match the front that im going to use. I will have to use low offset wheels like stock mustang wheels but that's what I wanted anyway so win win!

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