Learn me "classic cars" for the beginner

I dont have free time right now, but it never hurts to dream.....

Yesterday I passed what looked like a cross between an opal gt and a mgc(Im not real familiar w/ my british cars ) and then I ran across this on CL....

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/4599917221.html

Now I'm back to wanting a simple, affordable "classic" car as a novice project/"drive to work on nice days" car. Ive always liked the looks of the corvair, 510, amazon, etc from the 60's and 70's but have always heard that anything prior to the late 70's - early 80's had little to no rust protection. I live in the southeast ( not near the coast ) so salt shouldnt be a factor. I would like to one day own a car from this time period that I could focus on doing minor resto-mods to( brake upgrades, suspension re-work, etc ).Is it realistic to think that I could find a car from this area that didnt require a ton of body work and rust repair? If so, what brands/makers should I look at? Or should I just focus on "newer" models( volvo 245/745, 80's vw golf gti, e36, etc) and run w/ those?

Buy a solid car as straight as you want the finished product to be, doesn't matter if its just a roller with bad paint, much cheaper and easier to deal with nuts and bolts and maybe a paintjob than rust repair and bodywork.

^ What he said.

If you like Corvairs, you should be able to get the nicest ones out there for about $15,000

If you want instant gratification, buy a finished one and take good care of it, at least you'll get your money back when you sell it.

If you want a project, always buy two out of three things: Body, Mechanicals, Interior.

If more than one of those three things have issues, let someone else pay the bills.

I'd rather buy a rust-free, good running car and drop it off at the trimmers for a fresh interior.

The car you linked to isn't a car, it's a heap of parts. All three things are wrong there.

If you're looking for something from the '70s, have a look at Mercedes 280SL's. The sporty offerings from Mercedes are all riding the coattails of what the 300SL is doing right now. Gullwings are trading at over a million right now, roadsters are $800,000 easy. This is driving the 190SL, 230SL and 250SL market up. You'll pay $40,000 and better for a clean 230 right now. The 280 hasn't caught up yet but it will be the next one.

We've got a 230SL in at work and it's a fantastic drivers car and it's gorgeous.

Shawn

Take a look at 60's Mustangs. You can get a solid 6 cylinder hardtop for not a lot of money. Then you can resto-mod ad infinitum, including a crate V8, etc.

Think of classics as if it were golf: You need to pay to play, you need time to play and you need a place to play. And you need the tools to play.

Two ways to play:

1- Go buy a car that someone restored five or so years ago. Your task is to make sure they did a good job. The learning curve is learning the marque and being able to tell if you have a good one. ANY body and paint eliminates the candidate. There will be lots of pictures of the restoration work. You are going to pay about half of what he did. You will drive this car and maintain it in good shape. When done, you can sell it on for about what you paid.

2-You are going to buy a project. If your real goal is to drive a classic, this is not the way to go.Project have their own rewards in that you end up with skills and a sense of achievement. You need to decide early on if rust is something you want to tackle. Most people don't. When done, you end up with a car that is worth about half of what you invested. If you bail and sell the project, it is worth ten cents on the dollar if lucky.

I'd say it depends. That Corvair is $400... does it need a mountain of work? Yes. But it's $400... if all else fails, you cut your losses and part it out. This is sort of the approach I have taken with my rusty Volvo 1800ES. The car would be considered to have one wheel in the crusher by most 1800 enthusiasts, good for nothing but parts. But I see it as an opportunity to learn and play. I have no time frame to complete the car either, but it does help I have other classics to drive ('64 Mini, '72 GT6 & '79 Spitfire).

Also... unless you're one of those types who never uses A/C in your modern car, consider that you often lose a few months in the Summer when classic cars become somewhat uncomfortable to drive to work. Unless arriving at work soaked in sweat wouldn't bother anyone.

Oh, so much to say here and I probably won't cover it all.

That Corvair is a mobile pit of despair. Just that one photo tells me it needs significant rust work and a new door. Wouldn't touch it for anything but parts or as a Challenge car that would just be cobbled together for a bit of fun.

Rust is the enemy. It is always 4x worse than what you see and takes hours and dollars to address, and then you have to live with the constant fear it will bubble back, ruining all the work and expensive paint you've just applied to it. While trying to restore a rusty hulk is admirable, it's also fairly foolish, unless using a welder is your idea of fun. I constantly harp to would-be car restorers that they are better off spending a few thousand more buying something solid, and/or traveling to another part of the country and retrieving something 'dry' than working with a piece of rusted crap pulled from a field. Sadly, few take my advice.

The suggestion to limit your project to needing only one out of the three categories of body/interior/mechanical restored is excellent. Case in point: My own '65 F100. I bought it 12 years ago, pretty solid truck but with a few rust and paint issues, worn out interior, and a few mechanical needs. I fixed most of the mechanical, ignored the torn seat and worn out weatherstripping and am reminded of the creeping rust and delaminating paint every time I walk past it. Between time and budget, I've never been able to deal with the last two categories. I've finally had to admit it's not going to happen, and am going to replace it with something that DOESN'T need more than one category dealt with. Mechanical stuff is my forte, so no more body repair or complete interior overhauls for me. It's tough to admit failure, but there's only so many years left in my life, and not enough of those to do everything I want to do. Sometimes, writing a check for something is a better solution.

Old cars will always offer opportunities to tinker or improve them. You need not suffer the headaches of a 'project' to enjoy a hands-on experience in the car hobby. Buy the best car you can afford, and also buy what you really want, not just what has become 'available'. You need to be truly enthusiastic about it for it to make sense over the long term.

Trans_Maro wrote: If you want a project, always buy two out of three things: Body, Mechanicals, Interior.

and only buy if one of the two things is body?

says the guy who just dragged home a heap that needs quarter panel rust repair.

I'd say for your first classic, find something pretty common so you don't get frustrated trying to find parts or online resources (unless you're old-school and like to use mailing lists and such). Almost everything is available online now, but rarer stuff gets pricey fast (ex: my Triumph GT6 uses some common Spitfire stuff, but other parts are either hard to find or people want way more money than they're worth.) If you end up with a unicorn car, you'll just hate it and get frustrated at the slow pace of fixing it up while you search the country for the parts you want.

I'd say start with something good, fairly common, and that still has a vintage feel to it. I like the 70s Benz suggestion. Also BMW e21 and early e30s are plentiful, lots of parts, great cars overall, and they've held up to the years well in the south. And e21 prices are still very low, even for nice examples (my complete '77 320i cost me $250, with full interior, full drivetrain, and very little rust). IMO the 70s Euro cars (aside from British) hold up better than same-year Japanese or American cars (and they feel more capable/modern in most cases). Though you can't go wrong with an early 240/260/280z either. One of the few old Japanese cars that still has a lot of support/resources/parts available.

As stated before though: unless you hate life, or are an expert welder/metal guy, then look for the least rusty car you can find at whatever your price cutoff is. Mechanical stuff is easy. But if the body is swiss-cheese, you'll get tired of the project real fast if you're anything like me.

Buy body and paint you can live with. By far the most expensive and time consuming aspects of anold car.

Also, buy something that they make resto parts for. Having to fabricate and cobble E36 M3 gets old quick.

Zero in on what you want ans research it to death. Whats available, what the common mods are, common problems, aftermarket solutions to both, etc.

Dont assume that "its a chevelle" means you can get all the parts for it. Youd think that, but it's only true for some years.

get the most solid/complete car that you can afford... and don't whine because of the lack of things like "cup holders" or "AC" or "good brakes" or "safety".. just do what you want to it and enjoy it for what it is..

Color me crazy, but if I were to get a classic, it would be a really simple car. Straight six with a one-barrel carb, three on the tree or two speed automatic. Not necessarily fast but stone simple and easy to work on.

Basically, a 170 Falcon would be perfect.

Rust is not your friend....

Next is hidden crash damage.

Knurled wrote: Color me crazy, but if I were to get a classic, it would be a really simple car. Straight six with a one-barrel carb, three on the tree or two speed automatic. Not necessarily fast but stone simple and easy to work on. Basically, a 170 Falcon would be perfect.

I would do the same except i'd want a 4 or 5 speed manual. Some people might think 5 speed? TR8 and 280Z are two classics with good reliable 5 speeds.

It matters though. Firebird Sprint straight 6? Maybe not. L28 straight six? Sure. Though I would love a original engined Firebird Sprint.

Ultimate prize would be an Australian charger with a hemi 265

Late 70's C3 Corvette. Cheap, plentiful, simple.

Knurled wrote: Basically, a 170 Falcon would be perfect.

Colour me crazy but I like my toys to have resale value.

Unfortunately, Falcons, Corvairs, Vegas etc are all cheap for a reason.

Find me a cheap Falcon or Vega . . . . PLEASE!? I'm amazed at the prices for those two examples.

Trans_Maro wrote:

Knurled wrote: Basically, a 170 Falcon would be perfect.

Colour me crazy but I like my toys to have resale value. Unfortunately, Falcons, Corvairs, Vegas etc are all cheap for a reason.

Yes good point. It's always nicer to have a car worth $10K (or more of course!) after you put $10K into it than a $5K (or less car after you put $10K into it.

TeamEvil wrote: Find me a cheap Falcon or Vega . . . . PLEASE!? I'm amazed at the prices for those two examples.

I want a cosworth Vega in the worst way.

http://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/4551607342.html

The other huge enemy is the "Barn Find" It all sounds nice and they make it sound so good on TV. In reality, unless its a super valuable car, you will be in very deep before you know it. It'll probably need a radiator, heater core, carpet, seat foam, all of the seals in the motor will be shot, brakes will need work, suspension bushings, and the carb will be toast.

Find a runner with as good of a body as you can afford. Also, Get something that really interests you. It's so easy to see something and think that will be cool then 2 years later its apart in the garage and you have no interest anymore.

There are so many half finished projects out there for a reason. People realized they were either in way too deep financially to ever recover or they dug into it and it was a money black hole.

I think that Woody has solved the search !

We just last week went up to Lake Placid for a '72 Vega wagon. Cost around $5,000 and this was below average. These little suckers aren't cheap any more. Almost nothing old/interesting/odd is anymore. I'm always on the look out for something small, old, fun, odd, and haven't run into anything under $3,000 in reasonable condition.

The only time a "project" car makes sense is if you want to learn how to and/or enjoy doing lots of different stuff. My first TR6 had some rust, but when I started pulling panels I found it had lots of badly repaired rust. It took almost a year and many thousands of dollars to replace all of the rusty panels, but I did learn quite a lot by doing so. My current project I picked up as someone else's basket case project, but there's no rust. It's mainly going to take lots of cleaning and assembly (and someone else shooting the paint). It makes no sense financially doing this, but I'll end up with the car modified the way I want and know what's in it.

^^What Joe said. Don't end up buying a project because you can't afford a nice example of the car unless you have access to a fully equipped body shop and machine shop.

I wouldn't worry about interior condition too much, cars from the 70s on back are simple enough you can do a quick cleanup job on the seats and dash/HVAC and then piece the rest together while driving it.