Poser71
Poser71 New Reader
5/30/12 12:28 p.m.

I have a doner for my swap. bought a 1998 Z28 Camaro However the security system was activated in the accident and the engine will not turn over. I am going to put it on an OBD scaner tonight but wanted to get thoughts on how to find out what may or may not be wrong with the engine. The dealership will not give security code or anything without processed title and I was wanting to get started sooner than Title office will process paperwork.
Thoughts ?

docwyte
docwyte HalfDork
5/30/12 4:06 p.m.

I'd go through that motor. '98 LS1's are known to be a bit problematic.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
5/31/12 10:20 a.m.

bump

Keith
Keith MegaDork
5/31/12 10:54 a.m.

LS1tech.com will likely be the best resource. I don't remember if a 1998 Z28 has the ability to cut the starter with the security system. I seem to recall VATS (which isn't triggered by an accident, it's a key transponder) will just kill fire but let the car crank forever.

skywalker01
skywalker01 New Reader
5/31/12 12:17 p.m.

If you can get your hands on a tuner software kit, like HPTuners, I do believe there is a capability to disable VATS. Are you certain the engine is grounded properly? Your problem sounds like a problem I had, and I needed to ground the engine better.

Keith
Keith MegaDork
5/31/12 12:35 p.m.

Yup, you can turn off VATS with HPTuners. But VATS doesn't disable the starter in a 1998 Z28. If the engine won't turn over, it's not VATS.

Knurled
Knurled Dork
5/31/12 7:57 p.m.

VATS never disables the starter, it kills the fuel pump and injectors. (Start-stall. Start-stall. Start-stall.)

It's also not terribly difficult to bypass with wiring, if you have some resistors and a half-hour to kill, IIRC. The IIRC depends on which flavor of VATS the Camaro would use.

(gotta make sure we're all on the same page - I remember talking with some guy from Pennsylvania who said "she cranks but she won't turn over". Huh.)

G1
G1 New Reader
6/1/12 11:21 a.m.

In reply to Knurled:VATS never disables the starter, it kills the fuel pump and injectors.

I would not agree with "never" because I've had two vehicles that have had VATS issues that I have had to address.

My first was a 1996 Camaro with a V6 not the LS1. I can't remember for sure but I am pretty sure that it wouldn't even turn over or try to start. I had a locksmith by-pass the VATS system, took him about five minutes and it never gave me any more problems.

My second experience was with a 1987 Corvette that I entered in the Challenge last year. The starter would not engage by the key so I put current directly to the starter and the engine would turn over but would not start. I had the same locksmith by-pass the VATS on this car and the starter would turn but the engine would not start. After checking it over I found the engine was not getting any fuel and the fuel pump was not operating nor were the injectors because of the VATS. Once I found this out I just decided to get rid of the entire computer and VATS and covert this car to a carb and manifold with and electric fuel pump.Fortunately, I was able to find someone that wanted to go with fuel injection so I traded all my stuff for his.

Keith
Keith MegaDork
6/1/12 11:27 a.m.

I can confirm from direct experience that a 1998 Camaro Z28 PCM will crank happily but will never fire if the VATS kicks in. Been there, done that. It's a simple thing to turn off via HPTuners, and you can turn off the air pump, rear O2 sensors, EGR, etc at the same time.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
6/1/12 11:48 a.m.

G1, thanks for chiming in. I'm sure Poser71 will find that useful. BTW, both green vettes looked really nice last year. Was yours the one with this door panel? I was really impressed with how clean that looked....

Knurled
Knurled Dork
6/1/12 11:53 a.m.

Huh. I've never encounted a no-crank issue related to the theft control, but a quick scan of the wiring diagram shows a NO relay in the start signal circuit, and it's controlled by the park/neutral switch on one end and the BCM on the other.

Poser71
Poser71 New Reader
6/1/12 1:49 p.m.

Ok team GRM more info. . . . .

Car was bought at auction. Dealer will not accept the salvage title signed by pen. (They require a title with the owners name printed on it) I don't know if we have the right ignition key (which by the way is the only key we have no door key or fob). . . the ignition key will unlock the column and when you turn the ignition to the on position you get power (when applying external power to the battery) you get lights, radio, PW, fan and so on. When you advance the ignition to the point that the starter should engage you get the security alarm (flashing lights and honking horn) I have hooked up an obd scanner and get a 1626 code for Theft control. I have waded through many posts on LS1Tech and there are several opinions about the impact of VATs and the BCM and PCM this one seems the most like my situation.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1028595-help-car-wont-start-vats-security-related.html?ref=esp-link

Seems like this post is the one I should follow but not sure if my Key resistor is the correct one therefore not sure of the resistance the BCM would need to have as input. . . .
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/567630-homemade-vats-bypass-box.html?

Would this solve the problem from the PCM side and therefore no BCM involvement? Or does the BCM still control things like the starter and all this unit does is unlock the injectors?

THOUGHTS and OPPINIONS welcome from those who are smarter and better informed than myself.

Knurled
Knurled Dork
6/1/12 4:44 p.m.

There IS a procedure for learning a new/different key that involves turning the key on for 10 minutes three times in a row. Not sure if it applies to the Camaro's flavor of VATS.

Alternatively, the correct resistor can be hardwired into the VATS wiring harness and the problem ignored.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
6/1/12 4:59 p.m.
Knurled wrote: There IS a procedure for learning a new/different key that involves turning the key on for 10 minutes three times in a row. Not sure if it applies to the Camaro's flavor of VATS. Alternatively, the correct resistor can be hardwired into the VATS wiring harness and the problem ignored.

clear this up for me....the electronic bit in the key: resistor or RFID? Where is/are the resistors? (Yes, I know I'm slow to get to the party here.....and thinking that carbs look better all along for my datsun) Do any GRMers in the Chattanooga area have HPTuners?

Keith
Keith MegaDork
6/1/12 6:03 p.m.

Just about every shop with a dyno will have HPTuners these days.

In my opinion, it's a lot easier to deal with well-documented things like VATS than carbs

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo HalfDork
6/1/12 6:20 p.m.

Its a resistor in the key, but your no-crank situation is not the VATS.

skywalker01
skywalker01 New Reader
6/2/12 7:51 a.m.

Have you checked the grounds yet? This happened to me when I first tried firing mine up.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy Dork
6/2/12 9:46 a.m.

Granted my experience is with the truck flavor of motors, but they don't have any connection between the VATS and either the lights or horn.

To me it sounds like there may be an external alarm system installed. Have you looked for mystery black boxes with lots of wires? It could even be a remote starter, most of them function like that when triggered to be alarms.

blizazer
blizazer Reader
6/3/12 11:52 a.m.
oldopelguy wrote: Granted my experience is with the truck flavor of motors, but they don't have any connection between the VATS and either the lights or horn. To me it sounds like there may be an external alarm system installed. Have you looked for mystery black boxes with lots of wires? It could even be a remote starter, most of them function like that when triggered to be alarms.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Poser71
Poser71 New Reader
6/6/12 8:11 a.m.

Just wanted to give an update on the Vats Issue for the 98.

We removed fuse for the starter and grounded the signal comming from the BCM. This allowed the car to start but not keep running like was said earlier the injectors were disabled by VATs. We followed this threads advice

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/567630-homemade-vats-bypass-box.html?ref=esp-link

and what do you know engine that starts and runs . . . . The security light is still on so clearly there is an issue other places in the harness but step one compleated.

Thanks all for the advice and help.

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