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Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 1:50 p.m.

SWMBO is getting tired of paying for gas and is super intrigued by electrons for propulsion, as am I. I have driven the Leaf twice and love how it drives. The looks are a little weird, but she's okay with them.

I know of the $7,500 tax credit and the $1,000/30% on recharging equipment, and the no sales/use tax in my state.

We would be buying outright (no financing or lease) and also selling her Grand Prix.

Anybody have one? Like it?

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 1:55 p.m.

Bryce has one - he loves it. I am seriously considering it for the Cruiser replacement soon. Cross shop the newer/cheaper EV Focus - leases are stupid cheap, and it makes sense to lease in this case, especially with emerging battery tech (won't be anywhere near state-of-the-art in three years) and the longevity issues the batteries may or may not face.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:05 p.m.

In reply to tuna55:

The Focus starts at $36,xxx on the lowest end, a good $8,000 more than the Leaf. And SWMBO doesn't lease or change things in 3 years. She's owned exactly 2 cars in her entire career (87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 01 Pontiac Grand Prix GT). She'd keep this one at least 10 years.

nderwater
nderwater UberDork
7/25/13 2:09 p.m.

I'm considering a Leaf if/when my E39 has to be put down. With fun weekend vehicles already in my garage, I'm warming up to a HOV lane-legal car for my daily commuting. And with the incentives being applied to lease deals here, the financials are extremely compelling:

Leaf S with charger (MSRP: $31,265) 24 month lease
Down Payment: $0
Monthly Payment: $299.24 ($240.76 + $58.48 tax)
Lease-end Disposition Fee: $395
Total Cost: $7,059.08
Georgia Tax Credit: $5,000
Net cost over 2 years: $2,059 ($86 per month!)

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 2:10 p.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to tuna55: The Focus starts at $36,xxx on the lowest end, a good $8,000 more than the Leaf. And SWMBO doesn't lease or change things in 3 years. She's owned exactly 2 cars in her entire career (87 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and a 01 Pontiac Grand Prix GT). She'd keep this one at least 10 years.

Fair enough, but run the numbers first - leasing is super duper crazy cheap.

Anyway, I want one, we may get one soon - the field for me is the two EVs vs the 5 manual. Weird, right?

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 2:11 p.m.
nderwater wrote: Georgia Tax Credit: $5,000

Oh yeah, Jav, see if your state has an incentive

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:12 p.m.
tuna55 wrote:
nderwater wrote: Georgia Tax Credit: $5,000

Oh yeah, Jav, see if your state has an incentive

Washington State does not.

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
7/25/13 2:18 p.m.

How about the Volt for you as a company car and she gets the 5?

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 2:20 p.m.
turboswede wrote: How about the Volt for you as a company car and she gets the 5?

DUDE - he speaks the brilliance

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:23 p.m.
nderwater wrote: Leaf S with charger (MSRP: $31,265) 24 month lease Down Payment: $0 Monthly Payment: $299.24 ($240.76 + $58.48 tax) Lease-end Disposition Fee: $395 Total Cost: $7,059.08 Georgia Tax Credit: $5,000 Net cost over 2 years: $2,059 ($86 per month!)

Leaf S with charger ($30,950 incl destination) 36 month lease
Down payment: $1,800
Monthly payment: $199
Lease-end disposition fee: $595
Total cost: $9,559 ($265.63/month)

Numbers came straight from NissanUSA.com. No Washington state rebate. Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:24 p.m.
turboswede wrote: How about the Volt for you as a company car and she gets the 5?

Tried, way out of their budget.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 2:26 p.m.
Javelin wrote: Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

Just to pick nits, it -does- apply. Nissan USA gets it. That's why your lease is so cheap.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:33 p.m.

Leaf S with charger ($30,950 incl destination) purchase
Gross: $30,950
Sales tax: $0
Use tax: $0
Federal Rebate: $7,500
Net cost: $23,450

I figure we could realistically sell her GP for $5,000 private party (it's mint, garaged it's whole life, needs nothing, good mods) which would put us at $18,450 out of the door.

She spends $50 a week on gas and $150 a year on oil changes, which is $2,650 a year in normal running costs. So it would take a little less than 7 years for the Leaf to "pay for itself" in lack of running costs.

Then there's the intangibles. Her car has 134K miles and does need occasional maintenance, which the Leaf will not because it will be new/under warranty and/or it doesn't have those systems (hydraulic steering rack, upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, coolant elbows twice, rotors/pads, and rear toe links are what we've had to do so far).

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 2:33 p.m.
tuna55 wrote:
Javelin wrote: Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

Just to pick nits, it -does- apply. Nissan USA gets it. That's why your lease is so cheap.

Well, yes, correct.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 2:37 p.m.
Javelin wrote:
tuna55 wrote:
Javelin wrote: Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

Just to pick nits, it -does- apply. Nissan USA gets it. That's why your lease is so cheap.

Well, yes, correct.

I made up a neato quickie spreadsheet for calculating the total cost of a vehicle. I'll send it to you if you PM me your addy

turboswede
turboswede PowerDork
7/25/13 2:41 p.m.
Javelin wrote:
turboswede wrote: How about the Volt for you as a company car and she gets the 5?

Tried, way out of their budget.

Weaksauce. They're certainly not cheap though :(

nderwater
nderwater UberDork
7/25/13 2:57 p.m.
Javelin wrote: Numbers came straight from NissanUSA.com. No Washington state rebate. Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

A number of dealers are sweetening the Nissan USA lease terms to move Leafs off their lot. Search mynissanleaf.com to see what lease rates owners in your area have been able to negotiate.

poopshovel
poopshovel MegaDork
7/25/13 3:07 p.m.

I dunno if it's TRUE or not, but Clark Howard was on the radio earlier this week saying they lease his wife's Leaf for ~$200/month, and I'm assuming it's not with a E36 M3 ton of money down or anything. Crazy.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
7/25/13 3:15 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: I dunno if it's TRUE or not, but Clark Howard was on the radio earlier this week saying they lease his wife's Leaf for ~$200/month, and I'm assuming it's not with a E36 M3 ton of money down or anything. Crazy.

uhh yeah

Javelin wrote: Leaf S with charger ($30,950 incl destination) 36 month lease Down payment: $1,800 Monthly payment: $199 Lease-end disposition fee: $595 Total cost: $9,559 ($265.63/month) Numbers came straight from NissanUSA.com.
93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
7/25/13 3:33 p.m.

Why the Leaf over the Volt?

Also considered the 500e? Although an all electric Italian car sounds a little scary...

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 3:48 p.m.
nderwater wrote:
Javelin wrote: Numbers came straight from NissanUSA.com. No Washington state rebate. Federal $7500 rebate doesn't apply to leases.

A number of dealers are sweetening the Nissan USA lease terms to move Leafs off their lot. Search mynissanleaf.com to see what lease rates owners in your area have been able to negotiate.

I've been to 3 Nissan dealers in the last 2 days, and they all wanted to talk lease ad nauseum. Nobody had a better deal than what was on Nissan's website.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 3:56 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: Why the Leaf over the Volt? Also considered the 500e? Although an all electric Italian car sounds a little scary...

The Volt is $40,860 with the same equipment as the base model Leaf S (heated cloth seats, backup camera, etc). They do have a $4,000 Chevy rebate and the Volt is still rated for the full $7,500 Federal rebate, but that's still $29,360 or $5,910 more than the Leaf for less range, and not taking away the running costs (fuel, now needed as Premium; oil changes, etc).

The FIAT 500e is only available in California. Also, it has basically no back seat and this car is supposed to transport kiddo.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/25/13 3:59 p.m.

I don't understand this fine print: "If your Federal income tax liability is less than the vehicle credit, you do not get the excess credit as a refund nor can you "carry it forward"." Does that mean if my tax total is less than $7,500, or that my tax still owed (ie-not including what we've paid them all year)?

bastomatic
bastomatic SuperDork
7/25/13 4:18 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

Your total income tax for the 2013 year, including all other deductions. So if you paid less than $7500 last year, you probably won't get the full tax incentive.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim PowerDork
7/25/13 4:20 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: I dunno if it's TRUE or not, but Clark Howard was on the radio earlier this week saying they lease his wife's Leaf for ~$200/month, and I'm assuming it's not with a E36 M3 ton of money down or anything. Crazy.

I think it depends on where in the country you are (IIRC the closest Leaf dealer from here has offers around $299/month the last time I looked).

I know Javelin's better half wants to buy a car but Clark Howard suggests that leasing might be a better deal simply because the electric cars are improving quite a lot in a short amount of time, plus you also have the advantage that you don't have to deal with things like a battery pack that wants to be replaced.

I was seriously considering an electric car before getting the Evo, but my commute is just too long for one and I didn't feel rich enough to buy a Tesla Model S.

The other thing to think about is that a lease allows you to work out if you really like the car and if it works for you. If it does, you can always buy it at the end of the lease.

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