learn me on older (00' and down)subaru: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Jan. 15, 2012 7:05 a.m. VG30_S12 New Reader

Gunna have 3k to blow on a daily for the wife and 3kids, maybe spirited driving for me once in a while :) been looking at subarus but I duno much about them other than H4s and awd...

For the budget what should I expect? Any rules of thumbs or pitfalls specificly for them? Are they a nightmare to work on/diagnose? Reliable? Parts cheap? Ill be doing 90% of the maintance work on it, but my health is decreasing so id rather not plan on a drivetrain swap or something

Idealy I think id like a(2nd gen?) N/A Legacy GT wagon with a stick...

Anyway help me not buy a piece of crap example of a subaru without forking too much money
Jan. 15, 2012 7:41 a.m. ValuePack Dork

Buy-in is really just half the cost of an old Subie. They're a bit particular about liking certain replacement parts over others, some of which are rather pricey.

All of that vintage are quite easy to work on, and are infinitely upgradeable from the factory parts bin.

Look for rust in the rockers and rear wheel wells, that's where they rot first. Plan on a timing belt change upon purchase, you're looking at $250 for a full kit and some "while you're in theres" to do it yourself on a single cam car. Headgaskets fail with a bit more regularity than other Japanese four cylinders, dealer replacements are best. Engines are incredibly simple to remove, even for a novice. Rear wheel bearings are a hit or miss as to whether they'll last a while; budget $4-500 each to have someone swap one out. Most parts are reasonably affordable... not BMW pricey, but nowhere near GM cheap.

'89'94 and '95-'99 2.2 Legacy wagons are my fave for a daily. Buyer beware on the DOHC 2.5 in the Legacy GT and Outback, it's a good motor when put together, but they want headgaskets more often than the rest of the EJ engine family, and run of the mill parts are more expensive.

Do give a shout about any specifics you'd like to know, there's far too many to pull out of my head in a moment's notice.
Jan. 15, 2012 10:28 a.m. The_Jed Reader

I went to RockAuto.com to check the prices on timing belt kits because I thought ValuePack had exaggerated a bit. Nope. If you buy the kit with a water pump (pretty good idea), tensioner and idlers along with the belt the price is in the $200's.

An oil pump will run anywhere from $150-$250 alone depending on where you buy it.

The wheel bearings do seem to be a bit of a weak spot on the older Subies, my '97 currently has one making whingey noises.

I would definitely take care of the timing belt as a preventive measure, immediately after purchase. No worries though, it's a piece of cake. Subarus are VERY easy to work on.

The cost of parts will be pretty much on par with other Japanese cars.

When there's snow on the ground you'll be looking for places to play while most other people will be struggling to get around. I'd say the benefits of owning one far outweigh the few drawbacks.
Jan. 15, 2012 10:30 a.m. The_Jed Reader

Gas mileage isn't the greatest since you're driving 4 wheels all of the time.
Jan. 15, 2012 11:59 a.m. VG30_S12 New Reader

From what I've been reading headgaskets go like every weekend :c I don't have time for that kind of downtime...

Are the engines interference?(no valve clearence)? How hard is a hg to change?(never done it, speccaly sideways lol) I duno maybe I'm I'm just being a @#%!# but the s12 is going down for an fj20 swap and the zed would be the daily for a family of 5... Also how hard to find and pricy are things like rear ends, transmissions and ect?

The dunno if the one I'm intersted in, is a good deal... Ive seen cheaper but much higher mileage and the others aren't GTs Feel free to post a good one, ill traville to find the right one

alternetly post other good car ideas, or deals... Looking for the farthest thing from a project...
Jan. 15, 2012 1:12 p.m. fornetti14 HalfDork

I don't care for the older EJ25 dual cam motor. Save and buy one of the single cam versions in the '00+ Legacy and '99+ Forester. The older 2.5 had puck type valve shims and the newer EJ's had an adjustable jam nut and screw set up. Much easier to service. HG's can be done without pulling the motor and after doing almost a dozen, I consider it an easy repair.
Jan. 15, 2012 1:47 p.m. FlightService Dork

the head gasket issue had to do with the laminate that the head gaskets were covered with. Cars that sit actually have more trouble than cars that are driven. Recently manufactured head gaskets fix the problem so no worries there.

I have changed my mind on Subies and no longer want one. I had a Legacy first then a Forester. I had to swap the motor in the Forester (piston came apart) when I sold it, it needed a RR wheel bearing (common one to go out, they say replace it with an outback bearing and all is well. I don't know)

I didn't like the lack of steering feel. King pin angles are too vertical.

Issues that are known problems with subies. Rear wheel bearings Head Gaskets Oil seals Certain models on certain years the pistons will come apart.

Tough cars to physical abuse though. I totaled a Corolla in mine and I only had $2K worth of damage.

What they say about engine pulling is true. Very easy. Just about do all of it from above the engine.

If you are going to pull it for the timing belt, the "while your in there" list is Timing Belt Water Pump Head gaskets Full gasket kit (rear main, valve cover, spark plug seal, Cam shaft seals, etc) head bolts (torque to yield) If auto Tranny input shaft seal.

It all gets rather pricey but you can do it in one whack and have a fairly reliable car, that loves bad weather and is safe.

Good Luck
Jan. 15, 2012 4:46 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

Most have said what I'd say. Avoid the 4 cam motor. Plan on doing HG's on any 2.5 you buy if there's no proof they've been done. Once done, however, they should last another 100k or more. They can be done in the car but I think that's the stupid way to do it; the engine is so easy to pull and it's just easier. Lots of complaints about wheel bearings but I've yet to put one in any of mine. Watch for CE lights and a "P0420" code; very common, a couple different things it could be but worst case it needs a catalytic (most don't, or can be fooled into ignoring it). Don't buy aftermarket O2 sensors, ever.
Jan. 15, 2012 5:10 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

The rear wheel bearings are ball type on most Scoobs of that era. The SVX (and IIRC some Foresters) used tapered bearings which are much stronger and can easily be interchanged with the ball type. Definitely repack them with decent grease such as Maxima waterproof grease, motorcycle shops have that. The grease that comes in the bearings looks like Vaseline, not worth a crap.