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Jan. 11, 2011 9:56 p.m. Vigo Dork

If you care about trans problems, DONT get any chevy with a 4l60, it wont live with a heavy truck pulling that much.

If you get a big block truck with a 4l80e, you are set. Those things are great!

E4ods are great transmissions but do tend to burn up 4th when towing. Easiest way to avoid that is dont use 4th when you need to put a lot of power through it..just shift to 3rd.

The dodges... honestly.. are in the same boat as the e4od, but worse. Keep it out of 4th unless you want to burn it up. They burn up 4th behind v6 gas motors at 100k sometimes. Luckily you can pull the tail section and repair/upgrade 4th gear without pulling the entire trans, assuming it didnt fail and send E36 M3 all through the trans..

The v10 is just like any other modern motor. If it was taken care of, 200k is no big deal. And as for it not being torquey? My response to that is that the ford v10 is a complete piece of E36 M3 and we should always say that before saying ANYTHING about the dodge.
Jan. 11, 2011 11:28 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

ptmeyer84 wrote:

A quick search reveals that a 2002 Chevy 2500HD with a 8.1L is around your price range. It has been a truck that I have personally lusted over so take my recommendation with a grain of salt. The 8.1L/Allison combo would be optimal but they are rare beasts.

Anyway, check it out and see if it fits your needs.

Where are you searching? I don't see any in my price range.
Jan. 11, 2011 11:29 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

Got it Vigo. Thanks. That is why I've been looking at the old 460 motor instead of the newer V10 Fords. I like your description.
Jan. 12, 2011 9:02 a.m. Ian F Dork

Vigo wrote: The dodges... honestly.. are in the same boat as the e4od, but worse. Keep it out of 4th unless you want to burn it up. They burn up 4th behind v6 gas motors at 100k sometimes. Luckily you can pull the tail section and repair/upgrade 4th gear without pulling the entire trans, assuming it didnt fail and send E36 M3 all through the trans..

And the sad part is the manual transmissions in the Dodges aren't really any better. As bad as the auto's are, knowing what I do now, I wouldn't have insisted on a 5 spd. For one, auto versions are more common so it's easier to find a nicer one for a good price. Second, the auto's are cheaper to rebuild and easier to find beefed up aftermarket versions.
Jan. 12, 2011 1:39 p.m. doc_speeder Reader

Vigo wrote:

If you care about trans problems, DONT get any chevy with a 4l60, it wont live with a heavy truck pulling that much.

If you get a big block truck with a 4l80e, you are set. Those things are great!

Not just the BB got the 4L80E. My 2000 Silverado (new style) has the 6.0 LS-based motore and the 4L80E. Decent combo, tows my 6000lb trailer quite easily. Not sure of prices where you are. I got mine with very low mileage and very clean about 2 years ago for around $9k. Prices south of the border seem to be significantly lower.
Jan. 12, 2011 1:57 p.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

DrBoost wrote:

Yeah, but a gas motor with 200K is pretty used up, a (Cummins) diesel with 200K has at least another quarter million left, more than likely 1/2 a million left.

BullE36 M3. We put 500,000kms on my father's 96 vortec 1/2 ton. No problems besides a cracked head (defect).

A 5.7L vortec 3/4 ton would do you fine. If you can find a quad cab, even better.
Jan. 12, 2011 9:37 p.m. Buzz Killington HalfDork

Vigo wrote:

If you care about trans problems, DONT get any chevy with a 4l60, it wont live with a heavy truck pulling that much.

i've heard this from others as well, but i also know several people who have been towing with the 4L60 for years (like 25,000 miles/year) with zero problems.
Jan. 13, 2011 8:34 a.m. dj06482 Reader

Buzz Killington wrote:

Vigo wrote:

If you care about trans problems, DONT get any chevy with a 4l60, it wont live with a heavy truck pulling that much.

i've heard this from others as well, but i also know several people who have been towing with the 4L60 for years (like 25,000 miles/year) with zero problems.

The key with the 4L60E is having an aftermarket transmission cooler, changing the fluid regularly, and not towing in OD. Later models of the transmission could tow in OD, I believe, but I never owned one of those. I also never beat on the truck when towing/hauling. My truck had 125K when it rusted apart, and the transmission was rock-solid during my 8 years of ownership.
Jan. 13, 2011 12:04 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork

HiTempguy wrote:

DrBoost wrote:

Yeah, but a gas motor with 200K is pretty used up, a (Cummins) diesel with 200K has at least another quarter million left, more than likely 1/2 a million left.

BullE36 M3. We put 500,000kms on my father's 96 vortec 1/2 ton. No problems besides a cracked head (defect).

A 5.7L vortec 3/4 ton would do you fine. If you can find a quad cab, even better.

I didn't say gas motors won't live past 200K but if you have one that is still running, on average it's about done. Your gas motor with 500,000K on it is exceptional, 500,000 on a cummins is typical.
Jan. 13, 2011 9:22 p.m. Vigo Dork

i've heard this from others as well, but i also know several people who have been towing with the 4L60 for years (like 25,000 miles/year) with zero problems.

If you end up with one thats already been rebuilt with updated parts, its a whole different story. A lot of trucks with 4l60s have had 1 or 2 rebuilds by now. Some of those will be good builds, some of them won't. And the ones that are still factory are likely to have problems.

The key with the 4L60E is having an aftermarket transmission cooler, changing the fluid regularly, and not towing in OD. Later models of the transmission could tow in OD, I believe, but I never owned one of those. I also never beat on the truck when towing/hauling. My truck had 125K when it rusted apart, and the transmission was rock-solid during my 8 years of ownership.

Ehh.. I'd say the key with the 4l60 is replacing the sun shell, upgrading the 3/4 clutch pack, upgrading the front servo, making sure all the clearances are right, and THEN put a cooler on it and change the fluid regularly. There are things wrong with them that dont have to do with fluid temp.
Jan. 13, 2011 10:28 p.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

DrBoost wrote:

I didn't say gas motors won't live past 200K but if you have one that is still running, on average it's about done. Your gas motor with 500,000K on it is exceptional, 500,000 on a cummins is typical.

So my dad's '04 with 300,000kms on it is an anomaly? He's owned it since it had 160,000kms on it, so its not like its been babied before or after... I think poor ownership results in poor gas engine life span. Look at the volvo I have with over 300,000kms, it still makes good power too. The 4L60E in the '04 though, lets not go there. I agree those trans are garbage, but a cheap "performance" rebuild and you are on your way.
Jan. 13, 2011 10:34 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

The big block Suburbans come with the 4L80E

Choice right now is between a 96-99 Suburban w/ the 454 for ~$4k or a 93-97 F250 w/ the 460 for $3-5k both with less than 130k miles.

Other more spendy option is a 99 Powerstroke for $7500. One has 220k another has 100k.
Jan. 14, 2011 9:48 a.m. wcelliot HalfDork

If mileage is important the 454 or 460 will eat you alive.

Dad has a '99 'Burb Vortec 454 4x4 which is just about the most comfortable thing I've ever towed with (and he tows up to about 13,000#). But the mileage unladen is 10-12 and towing single digits.

I towed with a '99 Suburban 4x4 Vortec 350 and was happy with everything but the brakes. Highway mileage was 17-18 (towing could drop into single digits), but plenty of power up to 7000lbs or so. Only trans issue was a broken sun shell (what a crappy design!) at 120k; but always towed in 3rd.

Current tow vehicle is an '02 Avalanche 5.3. not as much torque and only 14mpg highway unladen. But brakes are much improved and I like the "Swiss Army knife" versatility.

I've been shopping for a '98-'99 Suburban 6.5TD... actually prefer the 1500 because the main difference is the higher gear diff which somewhat limits towing power but can breach 20mpg... (3 diffs available... and the effect on 6.5 mileage on the highway is substantially affected by them)

The 7.3td is a much more powerful engine, but the mileage is much worse... But if you can get a '99 with 100k on it for $7500, I'd have to seriously consider that....
Jan. 16, 2011 12:45 a.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

Thanks. After some careful consideration, I decided to get the newer truck at the higher cost with more modern brakes, 5 speed auto trans and better MPG. While I like the idea of buying an older low mileage truck at the bottom of its depreciation cycle, the newer trucks are just better in so many ways.

Found a 2002 F250 Powerstroke diesel w/ 103k miles on it for $7k. Body is a bit rough but runs and drives better than the other three 99+ PSD and two old F250 460 powered trucks I drove. I figured at this buy in price, I couldn't go wrong.

Thanks for the help
Jan. 16, 2011 1:47 a.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

amg_rx7 wrote:

Found a 2002 F250 Powerstroke diesel w/ 103k miles on it for $7k. Body is a bit rough but runs and drives better than the other three 99+ PSD and two old F250 460 powered trucks I drove. I figured at this buy in price, I couldn't go wrong.

You'd have to double that price in Canada, and it'd still be a good deal at $14k here for that truck. Wise-decision, congrats on getting the newest 7.3L you could!

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